Advice needed: weddingshoot on stage in music venue

[Laar]

I’d love to get some advice and tips from you guys concerning a first-time weddingshoot (yep; another “Help me, I need to shoot a wedding and I've never done that before”-question). Allow me to explain the situation:

I’ve been asked to take photos at the wedding of my brother and law and his girlfriend.
The thing is I mostly (if not only) shoot landscapes, cities and macros. Hardly done portraits, people or events. So this is new territory for me. Hence the request for some tips.

Music is a big part of their life - she sings and he plays guitar in the same band. That is why they had the idea to take some weddingphotos in a small music venue before the ‘ceremony’ (hmm … maybe they’re not that ‘demanding’ but meanwhile they do have a notion of how it should look like). It’s going to be on stage with spotlights on and he’s going to bring his guitar.
So I can already think of numerous poses; that won’t be the issue. The issue is taking good quality photos under these circumstances. Low light and the light that will be available is coming from harsh red, blue, green, yellow spotlights which you can hardly call flattering light. I’ve already told them that these are not ideal circumstances and that unless they want to look like devils, smurfs or the incredible Hulk I’ll probably have to convert the photos to black and white in pp. They’re fine with that.

The gear I have at my disposal is a Canon 5d MIII (since a few weeks after using a Canon Rebel XTi for the past 5 years). Lenses are all Canon: a 24-105mm L f4 / 50mm f1.8 / 100mm f2.8 / 17-40mm L f4. And recently I got a Speedlite 430EX II (and a standard stofen) but I haven’t used it a lot yet to be honest. I always shoot in RAW and most of the time I use the AV mode. Also it’s basically permanently in AI Servo mode since I use back button focus.

I know of course that I’ll be needing a fast lens so the 50mm is probably the best starting point but obviously too wide an aperture will result in a depth of field that is too narrow to use. And I need a fast enough shutterspeed to avoid motion blur. I’m concerned about ending up with photos which are out of focus or have focus where it shouldn’t be. Another risk is of course noise because of the high ISO values but hopefully I can fix that in pp (up to certain point).
I can’t really estimate how effective the flash would be since there’s nothing really to bounce the flash from. A friend of the bride will be present during the shoot so of course I could have her hold a piece of white paper for example. Or should I point it directly at the couple (both will be dressed in light clothing) with the stofen on?

I’d love to hear how you would handle this. Or at least how would you start out? Which lens would you use, flash or not (and what settings or ETTL). And how would you set your camera (also in terms of light metering mode and AF mode etc.).

Thanks for ‘hearing me out’ and I will appreciate the feed-back!

 

[Vtec44]

For me, I'd use fast primes, f1.8 or wider, and would go with either all natural lighting or with enough fill light to mimic natural lighting. That's the style I shoot most of the time. I've worked with 5DM3 RAW files and noise shouldn't be a concern. I wouldn't hesitate to use 6400ISO. I'm a spot metering person, will meter for the face. AF mode is dependent on the scene your'e shooting, if the couple is moving or not.

 

[Laar]

Thx for your response! Great when someone makes the effort to offer some thoughts.

My gameplan now is to start out using my 50mm and the 100mm. The good thing is that a light technician will be present during the shoot so we can adjust the light to our liking. So I'm thinking good frontlight and some spotlights as backlight. I won't use the flash unless I find myself in a really tight spot and only very softly.
I will have no problems to use the 6400 ISO, but am somewhat hesitant about higher values. Although I can fix in post of course. I can set a maximum ISO value on the 5DM3, I might do that.
Will use the spotmetering!

 

[kathyt]

The mark III can handle noise really well. I would also use the ambient light to your advantage. I think it would really help set the mood here and add to their day. Using the ambient light will create really dramatic lighting which they are probably used to. I go up to 8000 with my ISO during weddings. Don't be afraid to use it to your advantage.

 

[Laar]

Thx Kathy for reassuring me about the high ISO. I'll stretch that maximum value then . I know that it can handle the high ISO, but correcting it pp can only go so far in my opinion. I agree about using the ambient light, it will absolutely create a 'stage feel'. And you're right about it being light that they are used to; it will help them probably feel comfortable!
BTW; been looking at some of your weddingphotos on Flicr and they're lovely!

 

[kathyt]

Thx Kathy for reassuring me about the high ISO. I'll stretch that maximum value then . I know that it can handle the high ISO, but correcting it pp can only go so far in my opinion. I agree about using the ambient light, it will absolutely create a 'stage feel'. And you're right about it being light that they are used to; it will help them probably feel comfortable!
BTW; been looking at some of your weddingphotos on Flicr and they're lovely!

Thank you. I do very minimal noise reduction, if any, since purchasing my mark III. I love dramatic lighting. This would be my type of shoot, and the camera your using is the perfect one for the job.

 

[TCampbell]

I’d love to get some advice and tips from you guys concerning a first-time weddingshoot (yep; another “Help me, I need to shoot a wedding and I've never done that before”-question). Allow me to explain the situation:

I’ve been asked to take photos at the wedding of my brother and law and his girlfriend.

As in... "we already hired a professional photographer but since we know you do photography we'd appreciate if you'd bring your camera along as well."

or as in... "we'd like you to be the wedding photographer"

It makes a BIG difference.

The thing is I mostly (if not only) shoot landscapes, cities and macros. Hardly done portraits, people or events. So this is new territory for me. Hence the request for some tips.

Yep... and that's going to be a problematic.
Weddings are mostly portraiture... it helps to know modeling, composition, and lighting for portraiture. It also helps to have the gear for it. A couple of reflectors and a couple of powerful flash units would be a really good idea. But then that ALSO means being experienced enough that you know where to put the lights and how to control camera and light settings to get ideal results. If you've mostly been doing landscapes and cityscapes then it's unlikely you've done much with flash. Macro-lighting is very different than portraiture lighting.

Music is a big part of their life - she sings and he plays guitar in the same band. That is why they had the idea to take some weddingphotos in a small music venue before the ‘ceremony’ (hmm … maybe they’re not that ‘demanding’ but meanwhile they do have a notion of how it should look like). It’s going to be on stage with spotlights on and he’s going to bring his guitar.
So I can already think of numerous poses; that won’t be the issue. The issue is taking good quality photos under these circumstances. Low light and the light that will be available is coming from harsh red, blue, green, yellow spotlights which you can hardly call flattering light. I’ve already told them that these are not ideal circumstances and that unless they want to look like devils, smurfs or the incredible Hulk I’ll probably have to convert the photos to black and white in pp. They’re fine with that.

Don't try to white balance for the stage lights. The most common mistake I see with concert photography is not understanding how the camera's evaluative metering works. The camera is going to try to nudge everything toward middle gray. It tends to see the backgrounds as too black and tries to increase the exposure to reveal detail in the shadows. Unfortunately that causes the highlights in the image to get blown out. Since the lighting in a concert venue is typically intended to throw maximum light on the performers, it's the highlights that actually represent the part of the image that should be exposed correctly -- let the shadows go completely black (we don't care what's in those shadows.)

If you can spot meter the face, that's probably a reasonably accurate exposure reading (again... SPOT meter mode... not evaluative or center-weighted). In evaluative, you'd need to tell the camera to underexpose by about a stop (sometimes more) in order to not blow the highlights.

The gear I have at my disposal is a Canon 5d MIII (since a few weeks after using a Canon Rebel XTi for the past 5 years). Lenses are all Canon: a 24-105mm L f4 / 50mm f1.8 / 100mm f2.8 / 17-40mm L f4. And recently I got a Speedlite 430EX II (and a standard stofen) but I haven’t used it a lot yet to be honest. I always shoot in RAW and most of the time I use the AV mode. Also it’s basically permanently in AI Servo mode since I use back button focus.

The 5D III is certainly capable. If you've only had it "a few weeks" then I'm wondering if you're comfortable and quick at knowing its controls.

I know of course that I’ll be needing a fast lens so the 50mm is probably the best starting point but obviously too wide an aperture will result in a depth of field that is too narrow to use. And I need a fast enough shutterspeed to avoid motion blur. I’m concerned about ending up with photos which are out of focus or have focus where it shouldn’t be. Another risk is of course noise because of the high ISO values but hopefully I can fix that in pp (up to certain point).

The 50mm f/1.8 has a slow moving focus motor. Also, when stopped down it creates "nervous" character in the out-of-focus areas. The 50mm f/1.4 is MUCH better. For concert/event type venus, my favorite lens is my 135mm f/2L. But even a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS would be a good choice (rent it -- don't buy it... unless you just want to own one anyway.)

I can’t really estimate how effective the flash would be since there’s nothing really to bounce the flash from. A friend of the bride will be present during the shoot so of course I could have her hold a piece of white paper for example. Or should I point it directly at the couple (both will be dressed in light clothing) with the stofen on?

A pair of 600EX-RT's would sure be nice. The 430EX II has a guide number of 43 meters assuming ISO 100 and f/1.0. Divide the distance (43 meters) by the f-stop you'll actually be using (e.g. if you're shooting at f/5.6 the you divide 43 ÷ 5.6 = 7.7 meters.) That gives the distance the flash can actually cover. Each time you crank up the ISO by 1 stop, you can increase that distance by 1.4. But if you're shooting through any type of diffuser then you'll probably have to compensate for losing at least 1 full stop of light. You'll also loose light when bouncing (harder to predict because it depends on the reflectivity of the surface, but probably also at least 1 stop and of course the light is traveling a much greater distance to bounce up and then back down again.)

If I can't bounce, then TWO flashes... one above camera and the other off to the side) tend to cross-wash each other's shadows. So you get mild shadows rather than harsh shadows but the sidelight creates some dimensionality in the image so it wont look flat.

 

[cynicaster]

I wouldn't worry about the "weird" colors. Sure, you probably don't want a green light shining on a bride in a church, but if she's up on a stage jammin' then it won't look out of place.

You should do a bunch of test shots to see just how high you can bump the ISO and still be satisfied with the results. A sharp photo with a tad of discernable noise is always better than discernable camera shake.

 

[Laar]

Thanks again for the input everyone. It's appreciated!

@Kathy: If this is your type of thing I would welcome you to do the shoot (so I can learn a thing or two (or three)! But I suppose since you're in the US and I'm in Europe that's not gonna happen

@TCampbell:

They have asked me to be 'the wedding photographer', there's no pro on the scene. The thing is it's going to be a real intimate, small and mostly low-budget wedding. They just can't afford a pro. And since I'm 'the photographer' in the family they've asked me.
I've explained to them that a wedding shoot is really a WHOLE different ballgame than landscapes or macro. In fact, I've given them mutiple reasons on several occasions why it might be better not to have me take the photos . That's because I'm fully aware and respectful of the fact that weddingphotographers (or concertphotographers for that matter) are specialists. It takes experience and know-how to deliver good photos in those areas of expertise. So I don't underestimate this situation and I know my strenghts and weakness. But .. if I don't do it, they won't have a photographer at all so I want to help them out. But I made it clear that I can only try my best and that there are no guarantees. It's a risk they're willing to take.
So unfortunately I can't make myself all-knowing and experienced overnight in these photography areas, but I can at least do some research in advance and ask advice. So thank you for your input, it's really helpful!

I'll be sure to use spotmetering and on the face. Of course I'll also keep a close eye on my histograms and compensate when needed. The positive thing of course is that we have control over the stage lighting. Thx for explaining the use of the 430, that is good to keep in mind if do use it!
Renting the 70-200mm (or buying since it is on my wishlist and I've saved up the money for it) it a thought that has crossed my mind. I just might do that. And as much as I would love to have the other lenses you mention, I'll just have to make do with my 50mm/1.8! In several articles about concertphotography it is mentioned as being a good lens to work with tho' (amongst others).
The 5DM3 is wonderful camera of course. It will help me for sure. And I'm not familiar with it inside out. But I do photograph every day and test various features of the camera. So I do feel comfortable adjusting at least the most settings things quickly.

@cynicaster: you're right about the colorcasts. It does add to the mood. I'll just see how they turn out. If it's bad I convert 'em to black and white. And you're also right that a sharp photo wouldn't have to suffer from some noise. It's good to keep that in mind! Just as the fact that my high standards are not necessarily the same as the couple's. Might very well be that they're happy with a photo which I'm not too crazy about ...

 

[The_Traveler]

I would rent another body.
There are enough obstacles here, the last thing you need to do is to create another one by changing lenses.

 

[Laar]

I would rent another body.
There are enough obstacles here, the last thing you need to do is to create another one by changing lenses.

You're right! Good advice, thx.