Advice to newcomers

[Compaq]

I may be wrong, but the bullet points seem very "legislative". It is basically telling them what to do - in a strict way. It is written in command tense. Whilst I, and possible everyone, agree with its content, maybe it is a little sharply presented?

The_Traveler is a retired, higher-level US military officer. He is used to things like discipline, systems that WORK and which are proven to produce predictable results for huge groups of people, and following standardized methods so that things run predictably, and do not descend into utter chaos, trainwrecks, finger-pointing, or even worse some might say, three-word "C&C's" like," I like it!" or "Nice pics,dude!" or "Oh! So pretty!". Stuff like that.

If this was boot camp, or an invite-only site, then maybe we should demand such behavior from everyone - else we ban them. But everyone can join, and many do. Some become active members, others do not. The title says "Advice to newcomers", yet the advice is formulated as rules.

That said, if TPF wants to be a high-quality photography site with constructive criticism sections, then maybe being sharp with the newcomers is necessary. I've been to boards where threads/posts not following the rules get deleted, and the quality of the responses are, thus, very good. This site, however, is supposed to be "family friendly", hence the strict governing of swearing. Young, aspiring photographers may not respond, ehm, positive to being confronted at first with several hundred words describing how they must behave in most situations they will find themselves in on this board.

I was just reflecting over if the commanding tone was necessary. Or maybe it was written that way just out of old habit. I'm just saying, if we are going to post this to every new member introducing themselves, we should decide the best way to present this to engage them, not to frighten them.

 

[The_Traveler]

It is out of old habit.
I find it very difficult to pat the unknown bottom - in the abstract.

I am serious that I take no offense if anyone would care to rewrite, curtail any or all of it.

There is a large trade in useless repetitive questions and I had hoped to interrupt even a tiny bit of it.

(I did not say stupid questions for there are no stupid questions merely incredibly lazy churls and simpletons who ask them)

 

[Compaq]

For the record, I think a mail to every new member would be great. The serious ones would read and heed the words, I would think. The written language has the power to change people's mind, and the world, and should therefore be carefully crafted.

 

[TATTRAT]

For the record, I think a mail to every new member would be great. The serious ones would read and heed the words

This

I am pretty sure a welcome letter can be set up, just like a birthday message that goes out to members. Once they activate their account, a PM would be received. . .eith er that, or put it on forum announcements/intros & welcomes, and sticky it.

People who are serious in getting on board will certainly read up, especially if they are forum savvy.

 

[Designer]

If the problems we are trying to address in many cases result from not reading anything (on the forum or off) before posting, why would we expect that posting a >500 word set of guidelines would do any good?

Maybe its just for the ones that read.

 

[Derrel]

I hope that You All will indulge me a minute, as I post The Flip and the Flop.

The_Traveler's list of hints reflect the experiences he has...experienced. Some would like his message to be dumbed-down and made into a molly-coddling, kid-gloves list of homilies and utter pablum. Pretty typical inter-generational differences, I think...young people not wanting any rules, no guidelines, just a big, feel-good party where anything goes, people who come in and get C&C and then get all butt-hurt, causing nothing but strife....yeah...who needs rules anyway...rules and guidelines and suggestions are stupid.

What we need is something just shy of anarchy, and three to ten daily, "How do I use my kit lens?" threads...plus five or six, "Hey....NewbieNew-bear here, five-miniute lurker, first-time poster...hit up my Facebook gallery and critique me! Thxs!" posts...yeah, those are great. My other favorite post is the, "Here are some pix I took wth my kit zoom;what is the best F-stop 2 use for the best pix?"

YEARS ago, when the internet was populated by mostly educated academic types and techie people, ALL groups had FAQ's....noobs were expected to come in,lurk, and USE THE FAQ, to get answers to their frequently-asked questions...you know, the utterly stupid questions that noobs ask over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, as if the question had never been asked before! Of course, when the "How do I join this group?" and the "Me too!" and the "Add me to the list!!!" posts of America On-Line people began flooding in, the collective IQ of virtually all groups and boards on the web and Usenet went down about 50%.

Telling people what is expected of them creates good outcomes and is, most experienced individuals will agree, a good thing. Setting out clear, expected guidelines that have proven themselves for a couple of decades is a smart move. Of course, I could be wrong about all of this.

 

[The_Traveler]

I am not offended by anyone rewriting this 'list' to make it less draconian; anything this stem the flow of repetitive crap that brings the level of the place down.

The letter to registrants would be great but the mods don't seem to have access to that functionality.

Lew

 

[runnah]

I am not offended by anyone rewriting this 'list' to make it less draconian; anything this stem the flow of repetitive crap that brings the level of the place down.

The letter to registrants would be great but the mods don't seem to have access to that functionality.

Lew

It is the bane of every forum on the web. Noobs don't search. Maybe search needs to be better or more visible. If we find the answer I think everyone else would love to know.

But in the flip side if everyone searched for old threads there'd be no new threads.

 

[The_Traveler]

I had the idea of printing this list on a piece of parchment, wrapping it around an error and shooting it in their back.
That might be misconstrued.

 

[OLaA]

This whole concept is a bit pretentious. I think the ultimate goal is growth and to attract new ideas. A new user hit in the face with a bunch of rules as soon as they post, is more than off putting. I don't understand the need of some to police the site when we already have admins and mods..? If you don't like redundant questions don't click the thread title. Stay out of the beginners sub-forum. It's a bit ridiculous to ask so much of someone just joining the site, when the most vocal members of this site misdirect whole threads with terrible internet humor anyway. From my experience to the few that stick around, newbies eventually become supporting members as a natural progression. If you ask me, you would be a lot more successful at deterring the old heads that treat threads like an instant messaging service.

 

[The_Traveler]

Gee OlaA,

I don't think that 'pretentious' would be the right word, perhaps 'presumptuous'.

Since you have a great hold on how things work, perhaps you could point out what parts of that list are a)wrong or b) not common currency or c) aren't just suggestions that make their experience better.

Your concept of growth and attract new ideas is interesting.
How does the site benefit a huge influx of new, inexperienced people who ask a question, get an answer and disappear?
They aren't bringing new ideas, exciting pictures, great critique.

And what they are getting often is bad advice.
When experienced, knowledgeable people get burnt out on answering the same questions over and over click away, who steps in their place to answer? - new people, who don't know much, who give bad, silly or incomplete advice.

When people post tiny oof pictures, who tells the posters how wonderful they are and keeps them coming back, posting the same crap and getting the same empty praises.

Well, it isn't the more experienced people who are trying to keep the level of submissions up?

Since you have the empathy for the newbies, I'm hoping you step in and, in a non-presumptuous way, answer all those questions and C/C all the tiny OOF pictures.

And, btw, you could have used a term like 'misdirected' or 'inappropriate', but of course that wouldn't have the same degree of ad hominem, passive aggressiveness, would it?

 

[OLaA]

Gee OlaA,

I don't think that 'pretentious' would be the right word, perhaps 'presumptuous'.

Since you have a great hold on how things work, perhaps you could point out what parts of that list are a)wrong or b) not common currency or c) aren't just suggestions that make their experience better.

Your concept of growth and attract new ideas is interesting.
How does the site benefit a huge influx of new, inexperienced people who ask a question, get an answer and disappear?
They aren't bringing new ideas, exciting pictures, great critique.

And what they are getting often is bad advice.
When experienced, knowledgeable people get burnt out on answering the same questions over and over click away, who steps in their place to answer? - new people, who don't know much, who give bad, silly or incomplete advice.

When people post tiny oof pictures, who tells the posters how wonderful they are and keeps them coming back, posting the same crap and getting the same empty praises.

Well, it isn't the more experienced people who are trying to keep the level of submissions up?

Since you have the empathy for the newbies, I'm hoping you step in and, in a non-presumptuous way, answer all those questions and C/C all the tiny OOF pictures.

And, btw, you could have used a term like 'misdirected' or 'inappropriate', but of course that wouldn't have the same degree of ad hominem, passive aggressiveness, would it?

1. Pretentious by definition is the perfect word to describe this thread. That is why I used it.

2. I don't feel the need to point anything out as I don't feel new users need to be greeted with an instruction manual.

3. People are going to come and go. They will adapt and embrace the community for what it is/should be, or they will move on. It's just the reality of forum boards. Posting the ten commandments as soon as someone introduces them self is off putting as stated above, and risks losing possibly great contributing members before they even become actively involved on the forum.

4. Arguably true. But part of my original idea behind not needing this "presumptuous" advice script is that anyone that plans on sticking around will learn to weed through the BS and take it upon them selves to learn and research. I'm sorry you feel the world on your shoulders because some poor soul on the internet might leave with misinformation about their camera. Maybe if we stopped paying attention to redundant questions it will sink in that they will need to research else where to find the information and actually learn to fish. Eventually they will see the light.

5. See number 4.

6. ?

7. No thanks. Will continue to post how I see fit.

8. There is nothing passive aggressive about my personality. Get to know me and it becomes very apparent.

 

[The_Traveler]

8. There is nothing passive aggressive about my personality. Get to know me and it becomes very apparent.

No thanks.

 

[OLaA]

8. There is nothing passive aggressive about my personality. Get to know me and it becomes very apparent.

No thanks.

Ditto :thumbup:

 

[tnjoann]

Since I am new here I thought I would add my two cents to this thread. I actually found the list helpful.... found a couple things I hadn't learned from lurking here a bit. I found the statement "This is an active place with a culture all its own and the following ideas, hints should help you get acclimated quickly" prefacing the list helpful. It clearly told me the thread was written by someone who had been around here for a while and understood how things worked. I didn't understand it to be a list of "rules" so to speak but more a list of suggestions/recommendations for best results.

I am not new to forums though and at 46 I wouldn't fit in the "young" crowd either, and I don't dislike rules..... I would rather know what is expected of me.