Beginner having a brain overload

[caffeine.junkie]

I’ve been lurking these forums and other sites for the past month trying to get a grip on the wealth of information that comes with delving into digital slr photography. First and for most I would like to thank the community for the wealth of information provided to me thus far.

A little background info I am in my mid 20’s, a painter/graphics designer/student, I work mostly with local bands doing album art, be it paint, digital or a combination of the two, and occasionally assist on cleaning up, and adding the “flare” or “look” the band wants in their images mostly photo shoot stuff or from live shows done with point and shoots from their friends.

I would like to be more involved in the photography aspect of this giving me more creative control of the image to reach desired outcomes.

My problem is the amount of information I have gathered at this point has got me more flustered than I was a month ago. Tons of respect to all of you, I never imagined there was so much to this.

On to the part you hear several times a week and hope I really don’t get flamed over but I am looking for advice on a basic setup to start. I will mostly be shooting in clubs, bars and outside venues at night, and portrait type stuff. I’ve been pretty focused on the four following cameras and am looking at a starting budget of around $1500 to $2000.


Canon EOS T2i

Canon EOS 7D

Nikon D90

Nikon D300s

The obvious bonus to starting with the lower entry level cameras the T2i and the D90 is it would allow me to purchase a few extra lenses, as well as being easier to operate for a beginner, while the 7D and D300s would set me back a bit before I would be able to expand my set.

I do find myself very attracted to the D300s but am cautious as from what I have read there is no AUTO mode which may make my learning curve a bit steeper. It would seem it might be easier to start with one of the others and slowly work my way into manual settings.

I also find the added built quality to the 7D and D300s very appealing as I may find myself in concert type situations, and outside shooting I live in a very rainy part of the country.

Are the D300s and the 7D possibly to advance a starting point for someone who knows very little about photography?

It is late and I am very tired, I’m sure I’ve left a lot of things out =( so I hope this makes as much sense as possible if there is any other information you need that would better help you to guide me just let me know, and thank you for taking the time to read and contribute.

 

[pbelarge]

You will hear some say Canon and some say Nikon. Listen to what all say, do a little more homework and then make your decision based on what only you know will work for you.

Canon's 7D is a fast camera with high ISO features. It is somewhat advanced, but will most likely suit your needs for years to come (cost affective).

A 35mm & 50mm at the f/1.4 may suit your needs for the lenses. The reason I say may, is I am not sure of just what you have in mind, and how close you can actually get to the band/band members.

Good luck, and remember there was most likely a day when graphic arts was a mystery to you as well - you will be as good as you want to be!

 

[peterhanowell]

You are going to hear this more than once, but...

You will (should) end up worrying less about the body and more about the glass.

I personally use a Canon 7d and like it, but from everything I have seen the Nikon stuff is great too. They typically -just- beat out similar Canon products on high ISO, but it is rarely by any meaningful amount. 7d has a great autofocus system.

I would agree that a good relatively inexpensive piece of glass to start with would be a 50 (1.8 OK, 1.4 better. Drool over but don't buy the 1.2.) Given your intended shooting, get a body only, don't go for a kit lens.

I hope this helps!

Peter
--
Tallahassee photography, Tallahassee wedding photographers - Hanowell Photography

 

[nchips1]

I'm actually in between the Canons myself. The only difference I've found is that it takes an odd route to switching between movie mode and shootin' mode (the T2i)... plus the 7D is double the price. My vote goes for the T2i.

 

[myfotoguy]

D90+ Lenses (or T2i+ lenses) and a speedlight.

The learning curve is very individual. When I got a D80, since moved to D300, I pretty much dove in with aperture priority right from the start. I did use the scene modes some, but I could have gotten by without them. If you feel you might be overwhelmed I would not spend the extra money on the D300s or 7D if you think it might cause pain and discouragment.

The D300s and 7D have nice added features if you need them. More external controls vs. menu diving is really nice too.

I don't know your time frame, but maybe you could go to the store and hold them, decide which brand feels better in your hands, and is more intuitive to you for making adjustments.

It's hard to say, I think one could make a reasomable argument either way between the D300/7d or the D90/T2i. If I were to do it again, I would probably still get the D90/T2i and start learning. What if you don't get "into it" as much as you thought? Yo umight be glad you got the D90/T2i.

If it does continue to be something you enjoy and you really want to continue in the craft, then upgrade in the future when more advanced upgrades become available.

 

[caffeine.junkie]

I am not sure of just what you have in mind, and how close you can actually get to the band/band members.

I am able to get on stage if needed as long as I don't camp out there all night, I think mostly I would be right in front of the stage, or in back of the crowd to capture them as needed.

Good luck, and remember there was most likely a day when graphic arts was a mystery to you as well - you will be as good as you want to be!

So true I remember I first got my start on Photoshop 4 from a friends dad and all I could do was play with simple paint type options and mess with predefined filters and plugins.. Once I started to learn to do things manually and all the little tricks I saw my work begin to really blossom.

I did manage to make it down to a few places.. the only options in the range I am looking were the D90, T2i, and a Canon 50d.. I personally from a build stand point cannot stand the T2i I've seen wonderful photos taken with it, it just feels cheap, and not well built to me, and that may not be the best thing to be holding onto in a crowd of drunken idiots running into each other.

Both the D90 and the 50d had a very nice feel to them. I assume the 50D will be somewhat similar to the 7D ... assume.

I have continued to research and look at comparison photos from each and the D90 and 7D both seem to take some wonderful pictures in the right hands.. dedication pays off kudos to those of you who have stuck with it.

However I have noticed at least on this forum there are a lot of D90 user's who are producing some beautiful shots. A few D300s with wonderful shots as well.. but that seems to be where the upgrade process on the Nikon's stop.. Where I found plenty of the 5D and 1D Canon models, is there a particular reason for this?

Also as with spending a lot of time looking at Bodies, I've spent an equal amount of time looking at and comparing lenses. What is the deal with the "L" lenses from Canon, is it just marketing hype.. a lot of the reviews on those seem to be fairly low actually when compared to their cheaper models or are people just expecting miracles after spending that kind of cash? If they aren't all hype does Nikon carry a similar or equal type of professional branded lens?

The search for answers always brings more questions!
Thank you all for your patience and replies, they are very much appreciated and respected.

 

[caffeine.junkie]

bumper bumps

 

[Derrel]

SNIP>I personally from a build stand point cannot stand the T2i I've seen wonderful photos taken with it, it just feels cheap, and not well built to me, and that may not be the best thing to be holding onto in a crowd of drunken idiots running into each other.

Both the D90 and the 50d had a very nice feel to them. I assume the 50D will be somewhat similar to the 7D ... assume.

I have continued to research and look at comparison photos from each and the D90 and 7D both seem to take some wonderful pictures in the right hands.. dedication pays off kudos to those of you who have stuck with it.

However I have noticed at least on this forum there are a lot of D90 user's who are producing some beautiful shots. A few D300s with wonderful shots as well.. but that seems to be where the upgrade process on the Nikon's stop.. Where I found plenty of the 5D and 1D Canon models, is there a particular reason for this?

Also as with spending a lot of time looking at Bodies, I've spent an equal amount of time looking at and comparing lenses. What is the deal with the "L" lenses from Canon, is it just marketing hype.. a lot of the reviews on those seem to be fairly low actually when compared to their cheaper models or are people just expecting miracles after spending that kind of cash? If they aren't all hype does Nikon carry a similar or equal type of professional branded lens?

The search for answers always brings more questions!
Thank you all for your patience and replies, they are very much appreciated and respected.

Yes, The T2i is a Rebel--and it does feel a bit cheap. It has only a single control wheel, which is the way Canon and Nikon run their low-end cameras.
More-experienced shooters typically prefer a camera that uses dual control wheels or dials, one for aperture changes, the other for shutter speed manipulation. THIS is the one,single area where a Nikon is vastly different from a Canon body. With a Canon advanced camera, the aperture and shutter speed yo-yo's from one wheel to the other and back and forth, depending on which exposure mode the camera happens to be in. Nikons do not work that way--the rear dial always adjusts the shutter speed, the front dial always adjusts the lens aperture.

Nikon bodies also use a different method for adjusting the AF point...very different than the way Canon does it. The ergonomics of the two systems are vastly different. Canon has slowly been changing its body ergonomics between the 1-series and the XXd (10D-20-30-40-50D) series and the 5D series over the last few years, whereas NIkon bodies have been basically the same for about 10 years in terms of control layout being standardized across the high-end consumer D70-D100-D200-D300-D700 and the D1-D2-D3 series bodies.

As to the Canon L-glass lenses...that is a brilliant marketing scheme that goes back to the days when Nikon was the leader in 35mm SLR Systems, and ALL Nikkor lenses had ball-bearing lens diaphragms and were capable of being used with high-speed motor-driven cameras. Canon invented the L-designated lenses to differentiate their professionally-oriented lenses from their consumer-oriented lenses, as a way to build a bit more confidence back in the day. Current L-series lenses fall into the Luxury line, which has higher build quality and better water-resistance than consumer-grade Canon lenses. Nikon's better lenses are their more-costly lenses. Nikon offers USA customer a five-year warranty on officially USA-imported lenses, Canon offers a one-year warranty on officially USA-imported lenses. In general, Canon's L-series lenses ARE better-built than their low-priced and medium-priced lenses. I own three Canon L-series lenses, and they are pretty nicely made,and worth their price. (70-200 2.8 L-IS, 24-105 f/4 L-IS, 135mm f/2-L)

The newest generations of Canon lenses are being brought to market with very high prices; Canon is no longer willing to bring new lenses to market at lower-than-Nikon prices...look at the prices on their new 17,24,and 45 TS/E lenses, and their 200/2 IS, and the new 100/2.8 IS L-series macro lens, or the Canon 50/1.2-L. THe 50/1.2-L and 85/1.2-L are two L-series lenses that have,unfortunately, some serious optical flaws and problems and have optical qualities and performance issues that make them more marquee lenses than actually usable "speed" lenses for fast action...so the L-line of lenses has some oddities in terms of performance and price and price/performance issues.

Camera gear these days is pretty varied. There is a a HUGE amount of stuff on the market,and there are a lot of relative newcomers who will often lead you astray with all sorts of fanboy comments, as well as innocent comments made out of unfamiliarity with what "other" makers have to offer. It's possible that the equipment of one maker or another will better suit some shooters--not all the camera and lens makers have everything that the other guys have...so, you have to do your own research, and seek out opinions. When you find a camera that you "cannot stand" (your own words), then you do not want to buy that camera...so if you are suffering from brain overload, try and step back and formulate a plan that will take into account what YOU,yourself, really need and want,and work from there.

 

[freeze3kgt]

Just a personal preference.. i loved my canon t1i, but after i got my fiance the a Nikon d90 i prefered the ergos and the low light shots off of her d90 compared to my t1i just blew me away... so now i shoot a nikon also, so we can share lenses and i preferred the way the nikon handled. I dont really think you can go wrong either way they both make nice cameras just seems like a personal preference that other people cant really make for you just my thoughts on it