Color film for scanning then b&w conversion

[mrca]

I am looking to shoot medium format film to scan and use as a toned b&w digital print. I am thinkng using a color film would give me the most control in conversion rather than shooting b&w film. Is that right? I would like a low grain, maximum sharpness, large latitude in the film that scans well. I will be shooting in studio on a rolling stand with strobes so film speed isn't a limitation. In color film I am thinking ektar 100 but b&w Ilford delta 100 if scanning from b&w. What are your thoughts? My purpose is to get the smooth tonal transitions from film and the look of medium format. I am shooting on a 6x7 Mamiya rb67.

 

[480sparky]

What type of 'control' are you looking for?

If B&W is your end goal, you can employ far more in-camera methods (colored filters) as well as developing methods (push/pull film, various developers, temperatures times etc).

 

[mrca]

I like being able to control the initial conversion by using the color scrubbie to lighten or darken a particular color in the color image and the corresponding tone in the b&w to get a starting point. I don't develop or print in wet darkroom, I have my lab develop and scan so I am working from a scan.

 

[480sparky]

You can still lighten or darken a particular color when shooting b&w. You just need a set of color filters.

Shooting color gives you pretty much ONE option when developing. For around $100, you can get into souping your own B&W film and you have millions of options.

 

[mrca]

The control over individual tone via color adjustment in PS/LR is variable among all the colors/tones, I expect a filter when shooting is going to affect one color and is locked in. Leaving the color layer, I can go back and fine tune the color tone after the initial adjustment. I have considered doing my own developing and scanning, but for clients, I wouldn't trust my consistency, at least for a while. I would rather leave that in the hands of a lab with 40 or 50 years experience. I want the best possible scan as well and wouldn't I have to invest in a really expensive scanner to get the equivalent of what my lab gets from a noritsu or frontier? I can get 80 mb files on the larger scans. We have an art group here that has a lab available so may consider that to get back in the wet darkroom. It has been decades.

 

[limr]

I would suggest looking into using Portra (I prefer 160 but the 400 is good, too.) The colors are less saturated, but it's got a lot of latitude, and it catches more subtle variations in color that could translate into better tonal range once its converted. It's also a newer film, developed more specifically for scanning.

 

[Derrel]

Why not use a good slow to medium speed color slide film,scan that, and then in a 16-bit mode,make a black and white conversion, and then convert that to 8 bit for output use

 

[mrca]

limr, I lke the portra family since I am a portraitist and love the skin tones. That would give me a color neg I could use in color or scan. Derrel, that is a consideration in studio where I can really nail exposure on the slide film. I liked the more forgiving exposure range with color neg. For slide film have considered Provia 100.

 

[jcdeboever]

Derrel called it

 

[jcdeboever]

The smoothest transitions I have seen are from Fujifilm Acros 100, no one close, including color C41. If you try slide, better meter correct or you waste a bunch of film, very little tolerance. Next would be Ilford FP4 shot at 100. If you can hang for the new stuff, and Acros is anywhere near the original emulsion, try it. Acros was amazing film in the regard you're talking, not sure if the new stuff will be as good. I have a roll of original I could send you if you want to experiment. Send me a PM.

 

[mrca]

jc, you are exactly right about my concern with slide being less forgiving of exposure errors. I could restrict it to studio and after a test roll dial in getting to perfect exposure and go from there. Provia has a cooler look than Portra and although might like it for some color shots but not sure I would like it for most shots. I really like the warmth of portra and for its skin tones. I have rolls of Acros in both 35 and 120 and will try a test with them. Thanks for the offer. I shot lots of slide film -kodachrome and ektachrome- prior to 1990's, just used the camera meter with good results. With an incident meter, would I get best results metering slide film shooting box speed and metering under chin, dome pointed to camera with all lights on? Perhaps then spot metering on face highlight and darkest area in frame I want detail and looking for maximum of 5 stops? I also shoot ilford 3200 for the grain so shoot at 1600 speed and that is how I meter under chin to get one stop overexposure. I guess with Provia I want it dead on for exposure, no over or under exposure.

 

[webestang64]

Interesting, I'd never thought about color film to scan into BW, I would just shoot BW.
At the lab I work in we sometimes will scan very old color print film to BW to "bring out" more detail (using a tonal curve adjustment during scanning). If we leave it color it usually is a murky magenta or blue mono tone that no matter how to you try to bring it's full color back it just won't happen. Sometimes the tonal curve adjustment software can bring back color but many times it will not.

 

[Derrel]

A color film will be easier to develop in the current market in most cities across North America. Decent black and white film processing is now fairly hard to find. Shooting some type of C-41 process color negative film makes a fair amount of sense. In the past , meaning roughly 15 years ago, I shot a small amount of black and white chromogenic C-41 process film from Kodak, and scanned that. The reason was to avoid the need to set up a darkroom, and to just take the film down to my local color processor. These days small labs and photo shops are pretty much gone from the landscape in many smaller towns and cities.

 

[limr]

Interesting, I'd never thought about color film to scan into BW, I would just shoot BW.
At the lab I work in we sometimes will scan very old color print film to BW to "bring out" more detail (using a tonal curve adjustment during scanning). If we leave it color it usually is a murky magenta or blue mono tone that no matter how to you try to bring it's full color back it just won't happen. Sometimes the tonal curve adjustment software can bring back color but many times it will not.

I haven't shot color with the thought of scanning into b&w but I did shoot at least one roll of expired color with the intention of developing as b&w. It was a short roll and I just wanted to test the camera, so couldn't be bothered to send it out for color development. Came out pretty good, though. Good clarity and delicate tonal range. Might do it again at some point.


Reading by limrodrigues, on Flickr


Silk by limrodrigues, on Flickr

 

[mrca]

I don't want the color film scanned into b&w, I have it developed and scanned as color film, then in LR or PS, use the conversion of the scan to b&w and access the scrubbie slider to adjust individual colors. I do the same thing with digital, I shoot in color then make the conversion in post. Another advantage in both film and digital, is I have the option of going with the color image. The biggest advantage using medium format film, is I get a MF look and smooth tonal transitions and camera for a grand, not 50 grand for a digital mf camera.