cropping in photoshop

[linpelk]

This is probably a stupid question, but here it goes. When I crop in photoshop the picture physically becomes smaller. When I used to use Aperture for my RAW processing, it would automatically make the pictures as big as the others. What do I need to do (if anything) in photoshop after cropping?Do I need to resize the canvas? or image? When I put it on a disk with a bunch of other "non-cropped" pictures, will they all be uniform in size automatically or do I have to do something to make the cropped pictures "match"? Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

You have to resize the image to the dimesions you want the final to be.

That is resize the IMAGE, resizing the canvas makes the "canvas" that you are paintong on bigger, but leaves your crop the same size it was. You have to save the resized image to put it on a disk. Hows that?

 

[linpelk]

Ok, so my original picture is width: 10.764 and height: 16.194

Then I go in and crop. Now it is width: 3.998 height: 6

So I have to go back into Image>Image Size> then change those dimensions back to width: 10.764 and height: 16.194

Is this right?

Is this what everyone does when they crop?

What determines the size of the image in the first place? Is it the camera? A setting in the camera? The quality I am shooting? The sensor size? Will all of my pictures always start out as 10.764 x 16.194?

I feel really stupid about this. I feel like I can take nice pictures, I am getting better each day at editing, but when it comes to pixels, dpi, image size, saving... I am lost! Does anyone have any advice on a book or article or anything that I could read about this end of photography? I mean REALLY the basics.

Thank you!

And thank you David for responding!!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Ok, so my original picture is width: 10.764 and height: 16.194

Then I go in and crop. Now it is width: 3.998 height: 6

So I have to go back into Image>Image Size> then change those dimensions back to width: 10.764 and height: 16.194

Yup.

Is this right?

Is this what everyone does when they crop?

Basically. Changing the image size to the print size. You do have to be careful, enlarging too much can degrade quality. I can't give you specifics though.

What determines the size of the image in the first place? Is it the camera?

Yes. On your camera you have RAW, sRAW1, and sRAW2, which all have different resolutions. From my reading, it's a waste to shoot in the latter 2. I can link you if you need, if I can find it.

A setting in the camera? The quality I am shooting? The sensor size? Will all of my pictures always start out as 10.764 x 16.194?

Shooting in RAW, or Jpeg Fine, yes.

I feel really stupid about this. I feel like I can take nice pictures, I am getting better each day at editing, but when it comes to pixels, dpi, image size, saving... I am lost! Does anyone have any advice on a book or article or anything that I could read about this end of photography? I mean REALLY the basics.

Photoshop (or whatever software you use) for Dummies, Idiots Guide to, etc. Have you done any searches here concerning printing or resolution. I don't have any links to point you to.

A pixel is one dot on your screen. DPI is how many dots per inch that make up your image. Which gets into how many dots are necessary for printing. I think the general rule is 300-350 dots per inch. For the web, all that is needed is 72dpi.

Thank you!

And thank you David for responding!!

You're welcome.

Perhaps someone more knowledgable than I can step in and correct, or fill in as needed, once they are done berating people in the troll threads.

 

[linpelk]

Thanks again David. I really appreciate your reply.

So do megapixels determine the size of the picture? You said it depends on if I shoot in RAW, sRAW1 or sRAW2? So megapixels determine resolution and resolution determines the size of the image?

I've been shooting in sRAW1 because full RAW filled up my 4GB CF cards in like 10 minutes. I still want the editing flexibility and control that RAW offers, but clearly I can't shoot like this for an hour long photoshoot besides the space on my hard drive..yikes! I just import into Camera Raw and edit everything in PS. I used to do most of my RAW editing in Aperture, but once I bought the 5D Mk II and started shooting in sRAW1, I couldn't use it anymore. It doesn't recognize the files.

I have the Scott Kelby CS4 book. I have read through it to help with editing, but didn't really think about it helping me out with these particular questions. I am going to go read it cover to cover now

Thanks again David and PLEASE if anyone else has info on this or knows of a good resource for me, I would appreciate your input.

 

[dhilberg]

Megapixels is a calculation of the area of an image, in millions of pixels. Height of image in pixels * width of image in pixels. So for example if you have an image that is 4288 pixels wide and 2848 pixels high, 4288 * 2848 == 12,212,224 pixels, or approx. 12.2 megapixels.

I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you're getting at, so I'll just tell you what I do when I crop in PS.

From the full-size image, go Image > Image Size and under Document Size select the appropriate size for the image you want to print, i.e. 4 x 6 inches. Leave the pixel dimensions alone, and the resolution (ppi). If you leave Constrain Proportions checked, PS will keep the image at the proper dimensions, i.e. approx. a 2:3 ratio (4 x 6). Resample Image should be checked, but make sure to use Bicubic Sharper for reductions (making images smaller).

If you want to print an 4:5 image (8 x 10) you need to crop it first to a 4:5 ratio. You can use the crop tool for this, but I use the rectangular marquee tool. Select a fixed ratio of 4 for width and 5 for height, 0 px feather, and crop the portion of the image you want to keep. Then Image > Crop...

Then go Image > Image Size and select either width 8 inches or height 10 inches (PS will automagically fill in the other value if you have Constrain Proportions checked).

That's about it. It sounds complicated but it's really not.

And generally you don't want to upscale (make bigger) an image. Start from the original edit and make another size. So if you resize your original large image to a 4 x 6 and save it, don't enlarge it to a 5 x 7 or whatever and save it again. Start over from the large image.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Thanks again David. I really appreciate your reply.

So do megapixels determine the size of the picture? You said it depends on if I shoot in RAW, sRAW1 or sRAW2? So megapixels determine resolution and resolution determines the size of the image?

That's been my experience. My Canon PowerShot was fewer megapixels, and made smaller images than my XSi, which makes smaller images than the 5DmkII

I've been shooting in sRAW1 because full RAW filled up my 4GB CF cards in like 10 minutes. I still want the editing flexibility and control that RAW offers, but clearly I can't shoot like this for an hour long photoshoot besides the space on my hard drive..yikes!

Hehehhe, yeah. I get "running out of memory" errors if i have too many images open in PS. I also had to get a TerraByte Hard Drive for storage. They are not too expensive. Shooting in full RAW, allows you to make larger crops and maintain a reasonable print size. Shooting in the smaller RAW's, if you crop say 50%, you are seriously effecting usable print size.

RAW = 5616 x 3744 = 21MP
SRAW1 = 3861 x 2574 = 10MP
SRAW2 = 2784 x 1856 = 5MP
The difference is the number of pixels in the final file. In terms of camera operation, this also affects the number of images the camera can buffer and how quickly the buffer can be flushed.

Taken from THIS conversation. it appears one users test show some color differences in the smaller RAW file sizes.

I just import into Camera Raw and edit everything in PS. I used to do most of my RAW editing in Aperture, but once I bought the 5D Mk II and started shooting in sRAW1, I couldn't use it anymore. It doesn't recognize the files.

Does Aperture need a plug in for the new canon RAW files?

I have the Scott Kelby CS4 book. I have read through it to help with editing, but didn't really think about it helping me out with these particular questions. I am going to go read it cover to cover now

Let me know if there is a section covering your questions. I realize I need to do some searching to clear things up in my head too.

Thanks again David and PLEASE if anyone else has info on this or knows of a good resource for me, I would appreciate your input.

Again, you're welcome. I admire how far you've come since the "early days". :thumbup:

 

[linpelk]

Megapixels is a calculation of the area of an image, in millions of pixels. Height of image in pixels * width of image in pixels. So for example if you have an image that is 4288 pixels wide and 2848 pixels high, 4288 * 2848 == 12,212,224 pixels, or approx. 12.2 megapixels.

I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you're getting at, so I'll just tell you what I do when I crop in PS.

From the full-size image, go Image > Image Size and under Document Size select the appropriate size for the image you want to print, i.e. 4 x 6 inches. Leave the pixel dimensions alone, and the resolution (ppi). If you leave Constrain Proportions checked, PS will keep the image at the proper dimensions, i.e. approx. a 2:3 ratio (4 x 6). Resample Image should be checked, but make sure to use Bicubic Sharper for reductions (making images smaller).

If you want to print an 4:5 image (8 x 10) you need to crop it first to a 4:5 ratio. You can use the crop tool for this, but I use the rectangular marquee tool. Select a fixed ratio of 4 for width and 5 for height, 0 px feather, and crop the portion of the image you want to keep. Then Image > Crop...

Then go Image > Image Size and select either width 8 inches or height 10 inches (PS will automagically fill in the other value if you have Constrain Proportions checked).

That's about it. It sounds complicated but it's really not.

And generally you don't want to upscale (make bigger) an image. Start from the original edit and make another size. So if you resize your original large image to a 4 x 6 and save it, don't enlarge it to a 5 x 7 or whatever and save it again. Start over from the large image.

From the full-size image, go Image > Image Size and under Document Size select the appropriate size for the image you want to print, i.e. 4 x 6 inches. Leave the pixel dimensions alone, and the resolution (ppi). If you leave Constrain Proportions checked, PS will keep the image at the proper dimensions, i.e. approx. a 2:3 ratio (4 x 6). Resample Image should be checked, but make sure to use Bicubic Sharper for reductions (making images smaller).

Ok, I opened a new RAW image in PS and followed your steps above and I understand this (I didn't until I actually saw in PS what you meant) I don't understand what "Resample Image" means and why I should have it checked or why to change to the "Bicubic Sharper" and not the default setting of just "Bicubic", but I'll trust that these two things do something amazing and I'll go with it.
Now my picture is teeny tiny on my screen. So pushing the "command" and the "+" sign I can get it back to a regular size, but please tell me why I did this? Isn't the full image that I opened in photoshop (the approx 10x16) the same ratio as the 4x6 so what has changed?? If I burn a bunch of pictures that are 10x16 onto a disk along with the new 4x6 picture what will be the difference? They are the same ratio so they should print the same right? I noticed that the pixel (width and height in that Image box) significantly reduced. Does that mean that the quality of the print will be less? Is this what they mean when someone talks about high resolution vs. low resolution? What is considered high res. and what is considered low res.?

I have never resized a picture before ordering, but have ordered 4x6 prints. Why is it even necessary to resize in PS when you just tell the printers that you want a 4x6 and they just do it for you? I can understand if you were changing ratios...say from a 4x6 to an 8x10, but from the 10x16 to the 4x6..they are the same ratio so why even bother resizing first if it makes your pixel size smaller?

I am so sorry that I am this lame. I just feel like I can't sell myself as a photographer until I can figure this out and really understand what it is I'm doing.

I really appreciate your help. Thank you so much!!!

 

[linpelk]

Thanks again David. I really appreciate your reply.

So do megapixels determine the size of the picture? You said it depends on if I shoot in RAW, sRAW1 or sRAW2? So megapixels determine resolution and resolution determines the size of the image?

That's been my experience. My Canon PowerShot was fewer megapixels, and made smaller images than my XSi, which makes smaller images than the 5DmkII

I've been shooting in sRAW1 because full RAW filled up my 4GB CF cards in like 10 minutes. I still want the editing flexibility and control that RAW offers, but clearly I can't shoot like this for an hour long photoshoot besides the space on my hard drive..yikes!

Hehehhe, yeah. I get "running out of memory" errors if i have too many images open in PS. I also had to get a TerraByte Hard Drive for storage. They are not too expensive. Shooting in full RAW, allows you to make larger crops and maintain a reasonable print size. Shooting in the smaller RAW's, if you crop say 50%, you are seriously effecting usable print size.


Taken from THIS conversation. it appears one users test show some color differences in the smaller RAW file sizes.

Does Aperture need a plug in for the new canon RAW files?

I have the Scott Kelby CS4 book. I have read through it to help with editing, but didn't really think about it helping me out with these particular questions. I am going to go read it cover to cover now

Let me know if there is a section covering your questions. I realize I need to do some searching to clear things up in my head too.

Thanks again David and PLEASE if anyone else has info on this or knows of a good resource for me, I would appreciate your input.

Again, you're welcome. I admire how far you've come since the "early days". :thumbup:

Thanks again! I do have ONE external hard drive that is filling up quickly. Maybe I need to go get me a Terrabyte. I am afraid I'm going to have to purchase SOMETHING soon.

As for Aperture not supporting sRAW1 or 2...that was the verdict several months ago when I bought the 5d mk II. I'm not sure if Mac has figured it out yet, but it didn't have any options at that time (that I knew of) and now that I've made the change over to CR, I'm ok with it now.

I'll let you know if I find a good resource for my confusion with PS. Maybe I need to go get the PS for Dummies book since I feel like that might speak to me right now :blushing:. Thanks for your support and kind words!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I'll let you know if I find a good resource for my confusion with PS. Maybe I need to go get the PS for Dummies book since I feel like that might speak to me right now :blushing:. Thanks for your support and kind words!

I love the dummies, and idiots guide books. They are written in a casual easy to understand style.

 

[linpelk]

I'll let you know if I find a good resource for my confusion with PS. Maybe I need to go get the PS for Dummies book since I feel like that might speak to me right now :blushing:. Thanks for your support and kind words!

I love the dummies, and idiots guide books. They are written in a casual easy to understand style.

Perfect for idiots like me!!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Nah.
Perfect for people like us!

 

[dhilberg]

Now my picture is teeny tiny on my screen. So pushing the "command" and the "+" sign I can get it back to a regular size, but please tell me why I did this?

Yes, this is normal. If you were viewing the full-res image at something like 25%, your image after resizing will be shown at 25% (1/4 size) also. Not to worry, this has nothing to do with the image size itself. Zoom in to 100% and it will appear as specified in the image dimensions.

Isn't the full image that I opened in photoshop (the approx 10x16) the same ratio as the 4x6 so what has changed??

You have simply resized the image to a 4 by 6. It now fits exactly on 4 by 6 photo paper.

If I burn a bunch of pictures that are 10x16 onto a disk along with the new 4x6 picture what will be the difference?

The image size will be different, the actual physical size of the document.

They are the same ratio so they should print the same right?

They will print the same yes, but doing it this way you aren't relying on the lab to resize it.

I noticed that the pixel (width and height in that Image box) significantly reduced. Does that mean that the quality of the print will be less?

No, you've simply resized the image to fit exactly on 4 by 6 photo paper. You shrunk it down basically from a large 10 by 16 photo to a 4 by 6 photo. It will still print with the same quality, just in smaller form (4 by 6).

Is this what they mean when someone talks about high resolution vs. low resolution? What is considered high res. and what is considered low res.?

High resolution and low resolution are kind of relative terms. Compared to your straight out of the camera RAW file at 10 by 16, your 4 by 6 photos are low resolution. But the pixel density is the same for printing.

I have never resized a picture before ordering, but have ordered 4x6 prints. Why is it even necessary to resize in PS when you just tell the printers that you want a 4x6 and they just do it for you? I can understand if you were changing ratios...say from a 4x6 to an 8x10, but from the 10x16 to the 4x6..they are the same ratio so why even bother resizing first if it makes your pixel size smaller?

You don't have to resize it yourself. You can just send the full resolution images to the lab and they resize it for you based on what size prints you order. But images lose sharpness when downsampled (made smaller), so if you resize to a 4 by 6, apply a little sharpening (as an example), and send it to the lab that way, it will print exactly how you want it.

I am so sorry that I am this lame. I just feel like I can't sell myself as a photographer until I can figure this out and really understand what it is I'm doing.

Don't worry, it can be confusing.

I really appreciate your help. Thank you so much!!!

You're welcome.

 

[linpelk]

Quote: Originally Posted by linpelk
I noticed that the pixel (width and height in that Image box) significantly reduced. Does that mean that the quality of the print will be less?


No, you've simply resized the image to fit exactly on 4 by 6 photo paper. You shrunk it down basically from a large 10 by 16 photo to a 4 by 6 photo. It will still print with the same quality, just in smaller form (4 by 6).

Is this what they mean when someone talks about high resolution vs. low resolution? What is considered high res. and what is considered low res.?

High resolution and low resolution are kind of relative terms. Compared to your straight out of the camera RAW file at 10 by 16, your 4 by 6 photos are low resolution. But the pixel density is the same for printing.

Ok, so I want to offer my clients a CD with fully edited HIGH RESOLUTION images. I am telling them that they will get the 10x16 version. right? So, if they decide to print a 10x16 picture...it should be perfect, but now what if they want to print a 24 x 30? Will it still be perfect and IF SO...then if I offered them a CD with fully edited LOW RESOLUTION photos (say 4x6) wouldn't they still be able to print perfectly fine 10x16 prints with those as well?

The second part of the question then refers to cropping an image. Let's say I want to crop an image because I like a smaller portion of the picture (for whatever aesthetic reason) now my image size has changed from 10x16 to 4x6. Now it is no longer HIGH RES right? So if I crop a picture, then I can no longer say that it is a HIGH RES image? Is that correct?


Thanks again Dennis. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me clear this up in my head.

 

[dhilberg]

Ok, so I want to offer my clients a CD with fully edited HIGH RESOLUTION images. I am telling them that they will get the 10x16 version. right? So, if they decide to print a 10x16 picture...it should be perfect, but now what if they want to print a 24 x 30? Will it still be perfect and IF SO...then if I offered them a CD with fully edited LOW RESOLUTION photos (say 4x6) wouldn't they still be able to print perfectly fine 10x16 prints with those as well?

If you're offering them the full res image file, I wouldn't worry about making smaller sizes. It would be more trouble than it's worth telling the client which image is for what size and keeping them all sorted. Just give them the full res file and let them print what size they want from it.

The second part of the question then refers to cropping an image. Let's say I want to crop an image because I like a smaller portion of the picture (for whatever aesthetic reason) now my image size has changed from 10x16 to 4x6. Now it is no longer HIGH RES right? So if I crop a picture, then I can no longer say that it is a HIGH RES image? Is that correct?

No it's still "high res" as long as you haven't cropped it too much. If you're only cropping off a few hundred pixels that's nothing. You'll always know how large the document would be if printed by going to Image > Image Size and looking under "Document Size."

Thanks again Dennis. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me clear this up in my head.

Sure, no problem.