do you have simple explanation of why I would want to overpower the sun?

bennielou · Aug 1, 2011

IMO, you want to be in "charge" of the light. While sunshine is nice and all, it's not normally kind in photography.
*warning-this is a composite, but the light, pretty much, is real.

ghache · Aug 1, 2011

You have to balance the embiant light with your flash output so your blackground is not overexposed. "Overpowereing the sun" is not that hard but you have to have the right tools to do it. Fast shutter sync helps, closing down the aperture, powerfull flash and ND Filters are probably the best way to do it.

Once you have reached your maximum sync speed and you need to kill more light, this is when you use smaller apertures but you will also need to use more power from your flash since closing down your aperture will also kill alot of light coming from your flashes This is were it can be problematic if you dont have powerfull flash. Now the ND filters comes handy since they wont kill as much light as closing down aperture and you will be able to keep shooting wide open if you want depending on the situation.

Mike and bennie have really nice examples of good "overpowering the sun". Killing most of the available light to light up your subject the way you can will create some really dramatic skies and buildings or whatever venue your shooting at. You need to have the right tools.

kasperjd4 · Aug 1, 2011

Simple, one word answer... CONTROL.

Big Mike · Aug 2, 2011

drsioux said:
Ok, but if I'm limited to 1/250th of a second shutter speed with my strobes, or 1/200th using a skyport transmitter, I already lose some control of my ambient light, yes? Since shutter speed controls ambient, aperture controls flash exp. I can't crank up the shutter to make the background darker, I can only play with the power of my lights (Rangers, BTW) and with the aperture. I don't even know what I don't know, can't even formulate a reasonable question, so maybe I need to work at it a bit more until I really figure out what I'm trying to ask. I have no problem using my lights indoors or even outdoors, because I set up the conditions I want, in the shade or whatever. I've never had any reason to "overpower the sun", but I want to understand it. Big Mike, in that set up with the girl and dark clouds, what settings were you using that made the clouds go dark, without a high shutter speed. It can't be that they are just dark, RELATIVE to her?

I think this has been answered...but just so that it's clear.....
Yes, shutter speed has no affect on the exposure from the flash, so we use it to control the ambient exposure, independently of the flash exposure. And yes, we are limited to the max sync speed of the camera. (we can use High Speed Sync, but that also limits the working distance of the flash, so isn't always an option).

But, we still need to account for the aperture and ISO when it comes to getting the ambient (background) exposure that we want. And that is a main reason why we do this...it's to get the background that we want. So knowing that we're limited to a 1/200 shutter speed...even at ISO 100, the sky may not look how we want it, until we stop down to F16 or so. But, the problem is that as you stop down the aperture (and use a low ISO), you need more and more flash power.

So to get the background exposure that you want, because the shutter speed is limited to the max sync, you need to use a low ISO and small aperture, both of which will affect the flash exposure. So to get the flash exposure you want, at those settings...you probably need a very powerful flash.

And that's why we talk about needing a powerful flash that can overpower the sun.

Vtec44 · Aug 2, 2011

My attempt of this method a couple of weeks back, using 2 SB600's. Max sync speed for my camera is 1/250 and the SB600's are not that powerful to darken the sky much.

ghache · Aug 2, 2011

Vtec44 said:
My attempt of this method a couple of weeks back, using 2 SB600's. Max sync speed for my camera is 1/250 and the SB600's are not that powerful to darken the sky much.

Bare flash its not a problem if you want to "balance", However, you still have to deal with the harsh light.

To kill most of the light? + using modifiers.... you need alot more.