Dogs & Shooting In Rain/Overcast Help

mriddick00 · Feb 24, 2019

Not sure if this is the right forum for this. Had a group of folks in from out of town to work the dogs a bit in horrible weather. I seemed to have the hardest time getting the camera to focus and when it did, it still didn’t seem to be very sharp. Any pointers?

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Overread · Feb 25, 2019

Looks like a very soggy wet day - though seems the dogs had fun

A few thoughts and questions
1) What gear did you use for these photos and what settings/modes were you using. An idea of what you have and what you tried is a bit help in narrowing down what could be causing your problems as there are multiple possibilities and it might well be a combination of several .

2) A few of your photos show the dogs in long grass, this is difficult for any camera. Basically AF works by detecting variations in contrast in the scene and aims to pin focus on the closest point (under the active af points) to the camera that it can detect that difference in contrast. As a result sometimes it will grab at the grass rather than the subject; if you're moving and panning a shot through grass then, again, you've got loads of grass getting between you and the dog to distract the AF system.

Braineack · Feb 25, 2019

images stripped of all EXIF dont help us...

DSC in filename suggests a Nikon. What exact equipment was used, and how?

mriddick00 · Feb 25, 2019

Nikon D500 with a Tamron 70-200 2.8 VC G2. I was flipping back and forth between shutter and aperture priority. Its weird in some of the pics its seems as if there was NO focal point, I a used to missing the action shots by just having a missed focal point. Here a couple shots with the EXIF info.

Are most Nikon users shooting in single AF Mode or Group in a setting like this?

Overread said:
Looks like a very soggy wet day - though seems the dogs had fun

A few thoughts and questions
1) What gear did you use for these photos and what settings/modes were you using. An idea of what you have and what you tried is a bit help in narrowing down what could be causing your problems as there are multiple possibilities and it might well be a combination of several .

2) A few of your photos show the dogs in long grass, this is difficult for any camera. Basically AF works by detecting variations in contrast in the scene and aims to pin focus on the closest point (under the active af points) to the camera that it can detect that difference in contrast. As a result sometimes it will grab at the grass rather than the subject; if you're moving and panning a shot through grass then, again, you've got loads of grass getting between you and the dog to distract the AF system.

Braineack · Feb 25, 2019

what AF mode were you using?

mriddick00 · Feb 25, 2019

Braineack said:
what AF mode were you using?

Mostly Single, I would flip back and forth some with group but 90% were single.

MSnowy · Feb 25, 2019

Nice set! I also have a d500 and I use single 99% of the time.

Overread · Feb 26, 2019

With AF it generally works best to use a single AF point - middle one is often the easier to work with, but you can move it around to others for more compositional freedom*. The way AF works if you've got a large group active its got more chance of grabbing a leaf, twig or grass than the subject. Of course many modern AF systems will "ghost use" a group when you select a single point (the single is the priority, but the camera uses a small group around that point to aid it).

Settings wise for action with a dog I would use aperture priority mode or manual mode. Basically I'd use aperture priority because I'm controlling the depth of field with that and in that light with that subject I'd likely be setting it pretty wide, f2.8 to f4 range; perhaps f5.6 for dog and handler shots. The shutter speed is basically then being based on the meter reading, which in that light should be fairly reliable; so its easier to let the camera do the work for me and adjust it on the fly.
That said it doesn't mean you ignore the shutter speed, you keep an eye on it. For general animal action 1/620 is the slowest speed where you won't get much if any blur**. Drop down to 1/500sec and you'd certainly be getting motion blur. Now if the shutter speeds are faster you're fine leave it as is, however in dimmer lighting if the shutterspeed is dancing on that speed and slower or going slower all the time then I'd either make the aperture wider and/or raise the ISO.

Whilst the shutter speed is basically the more critical element, you don't necessarily want it at a fixed speed for this kind of work, you just need it above a certain value; hence why I'd use aperture priority or manual mode. Shutter priority I'd use if I want a very specific speed so that I can fix it to be the same each time. It's not something I'd use for animals as much as I'd use it for something like propeller aircraft or motorsports where one wants to blur the motion of the propellers/wheels - and therefore you don't want the camera jumping the speed around on its own. The shutterspeed becomes the more important and the depth of field (aperture) less important (though again you're not ignoring it).

If the light was pretty stable (ergo whilst its overcast its not changing much) and if I'm in one spot and the dogs in another (ergo the light falling on them is the same) then I might well use manual mode; take a test shot and review the histogram on the back of the camera***; adjusting my settings as required and then just leaving it at that. The bonus of manual is that the exposure won't vary shot to shot save if the light changes. It can be good in more challenging conditions.

*I find this can work well, but you've got to be a bit hot on your game with action to make it work and often as not its "easier" just to leave it in the middle and then crop for the composition.

** It's the minimum speed for no blur on showjumping horses, so I'd wager its going to be generally fast enough for many dog motions; though experiment yourself and see if there's any blur or a likeable blur or not.

***if you don't do this yet check your manual and enable the histogram. It's a very powerful photo review tool in the field as it tells you what the exposure is over the whole photo. The bar chart basically has the full underexposure (black) on the left and full overexposure on the right (white). Ideally you want as much of the lump of the exposure on the left side (without hitting the full left end) as you can. Remember this is an ideal concept and the real world shooting might not make this possible every time. Furthermore when its enabled the picture will blink any area where there's overexposure. A white no-detail railing with some overexposure is fine; but if you've got it all over white fur or key areas of detail then you know to dial back the exposure a little using either exposure compensation (in aperture or shutter priority mode) or to vary the exposure needle to show underexposure if in manual mode.
Remembering exposure compensation is only telling the camera to under or over expose the scene using the setting it controls - its just the same as you choosing to over or under expose based on the needle reading in manual mode

zulu42 · Feb 26, 2019

Mostly looks like atmospheric conditions to me. All that rain in between the camera and subject - it just wont be sharp - especially the further away you get.

mriddick00 · Feb 26, 2019

Great Info! Gonna take a few photo sessions to digest it all. Thank you for the insight and the wealth of knowledge.

Overread said:
With AF it generally works best to use a single AF point - middle one is often the easier to work with, but you can move it around to others for more compositional freedom*. The way AF works if you've got a large group active its got more chance of grabbing a leaf, twig or grass than the subject. Of course many modern AF systems will "ghost use" a group when you select a single point (the single is the priority, but the camera uses a small group around that point to aid it).

Settings wise for action with a dog I would use aperture priority mode or manual mode. Basically I'd use aperture priority because I'm controlling the depth of field with that and in that light with that subject I'd likely be setting it pretty wide, f2.8 to f4 range; perhaps f5.6 for dog and handler shots. The shutter speed is basically then being based on the meter reading, which in that light should be fairly reliable; so its easier to let the camera do the work for me and adjust it on the fly.
That said it doesn't mean you ignore the shutter speed, you keep an eye on it. For general animal action 1/620 is the slowest speed where you won't get much if any blur**. Drop down to 1/500sec and you'd certainly be getting motion blur. Now if the shutter speeds are faster you're fine leave it as is, however in dimmer lighting if the shutterspeed is dancing on that speed and slower or going slower all the time then I'd either make the aperture wider and/or raise the ISO.

Whilst the shutter speed is basically the more critical element, you don't necessarily want it at a fixed speed for this kind of work, you just need it above a certain value; hence why I'd use aperture priority or manual mode. Shutter priority I'd use if I want a very specific speed so that I can fix it to be the same each time. It's not something I'd use for animals as much as I'd use it for something like propeller aircraft or motorsports where one wants to blur the motion of the propellers/wheels - and therefore you don't want the camera jumping the speed around on its own. The shutterspeed becomes the more important and the depth of field (aperture) less important (though again you're not ignoring it).

If the light was pretty stable (ergo whilst its overcast its not changing much) and if I'm in one spot and the dogs in another (ergo the light falling on them is the same) then I might well use manual mode; take a test shot and review the histogram on the back of the camera***; adjusting my settings as required and then just leaving it at that. The bonus of manual is that the exposure won't vary shot to shot save if the light changes. It can be good in more challenging conditions.

*I find this can work well, but you've got to be a bit hot on your game with action to make it work and often as not its "easier" just to leave it in the middle and then crop for the composition.

** It's the minimum speed for no blur on showjumping horses, so I'd wager its going to be generally fast enough for many dog motions; though experiment yourself and see if there's any blur or a likeable blur or not.

***if you don't do this yet check your manual and enable the histogram. It's a very powerful photo review tool in the field as it tells you what the exposure is over the whole photo. The bar chart basically has the full underexposure (black) on the left and full overexposure on the right (white). Ideally you want as much of the lump of the exposure on the left side (without hitting the full left end) as you can. Remember this is an ideal concept and the real world shooting might not make this possible every time. Furthermore when its enabled the picture will blink any area where there's overexposure. A white no-detail railing with some overexposure is fine; but if you've got it all over white fur or key areas of detail then you know to dial back the exposure a little using either exposure compensation (in aperture or shutter priority mode) or to vary the exposure needle to show underexposure if in manual mode.
Remembering exposure compensation is only telling the camera to under or over expose the scene using the setting it controls - its just the same as you choosing to over or under expose based on the needle reading in manual mode

mriddick00 · Feb 26, 2019

I think that definitely plays a part in it.

zulu42 said:
Mostly looks like atmospheric conditions to me. All that rain in between the camera and subject - it just wont be sharp - especially the further away you get.