Failed first night shots C&C Please!

[biggerben]

i'm not 100% sure this is correct, but try it and see

take the shot at f/8 (and NOT wide open like you have) and ISO 100 or 200. the shutter will be open for quite a while, but that's ok.

also, make sure you switch the VR off if the camera is on a tripod.

try to take the shot during dusk. it looks much nicer when the sky isn't pitch black.

 

[matt62485]

hmm, so one says fast, the other says a little slower and smaller aperture :crazy:

also, why cut the VR off if its on tripod?

 

[Insanity]

hmm, so one says fast, the other says a little slower and smaller aperture :crazy:

also, why cut the VR off if its on tripod?

Might be 2 ways to achieve the effect.

That's the great thing about having 3 settings you can change around.

As for the VR... if it's on a tripod, why do you need VR?


Edit: Just realized... he may also be talking about the OP pictures whereas I'm talking about the building name picture.

 

[Kpablo]

I like no. 3 best.

 

[biggerben]

I don't know why you should turn off the VR. But I do know it's something you should do, not something that you can do. It actually blurrs the shot if you don't.

 

[verticalization]

you turn off the VR because, if the camera is perfectly still (on a tripod) the VR will still be trying to reduce vibrations, which will add a tiny slight bit of blur/un-sharpness to the photos since the motor is still working to reduce vibes.

 

[jensgt]

yea ive had NR on since day 1! thanks though!

could someone explain to me if theres a way to make the PPD (building name) clear and defined? i tried many a aperture/shutter combos and this is the best I got... horrible blur of light. Is it possible? This was with my 18-55 at 55mm, f/5.6 @ 3 secs, iso800 (horrible noise), tripod and remotely fired.

at 3 seconds and f5.6 you are letting too much light in. I don't have much experience with night city shots yet but I assume its not too different from shooting the moon...people think you need wide open and long shutter because its so dark outside...whereas the moon puts off tons of light...like this building sign also does. try closing the aperture up more and a slow shutter...you should get a good idea how that works on your preview screen...take some like that, then try the opposite. Its a digital camera and with the memory cards we have out today you can never really take too many pictures...once youre set up somewhere try everything you can then come home and figure out what worked. Sometimes when I shoot I'll take 100 pictures and come out with 5 that I love.

 

[matt62485]

at 3 seconds and f5.6 you are letting too much light in. I don't have much experience with night city shots yet but I assume its not too different from shooting the moon...people think you need wide open and long shutter because its so dark outside...whereas the moon puts off tons of light...like this building sign also does. try closing the aperture up more and a slow shutter...you should get a good idea how that works on your preview screen...take some like that, then try the opposite. Its a digital camera and with the memory cards we have out today you can never really take too many pictures...once youre set up somewhere try everything you can then come home and figure out what worked. Sometimes when I shoot I'll take 100 pictures and come out with 5 that I love. [/QUOTE]

well this was the best one i got. i understand how aperture and shutter speed works but out of 20 or so pictures here, this is the best I got. I tried small/large fstops and fast/slow shutters, etc. i did have the VR though, so that may have had an adverse affect on it. I'm going to go back soon and give it another try.

Thanks :thumbup:

 

[manaheim]

With all due respect, there is a lot of misinformation and partial information in this thread. Don't always assume what any random person on the net tells you is correct... and that includes me.

First off, I don't really see any noise in these, so I don't know what folks are talking about. Granted, I'm on my 15" laptop screen, but seriously... I don't see any appreciable level of noise, even in the dark areas (where noise could be prevalent even in lower ISO pictures on shorter exposures)

I don't know what kind of camera you are using, but most of the cameras with the long-exposure (previously called longer shutter) resulting in noise problems were older CCD based cameras. The sensor heats up horrifically, causing errors in the readings, resulting in noise. Now I'll be honest in that I haven't gone to check in on whether my theory here is exactly correct, the core of the problem is essentially the same... long exposure=heat=noise. Still, I don't see noise in your images.


Composition elements aside, there are some technical tricks to making night photography work. They are:

• Shoot in RAW(!) - This will allow you to do a couple critical things and not worry too much about off light readings since light colors are really wacky at night.
• Overexpose!!! You want to purposely overexpose your image slightly (note that this really only works with RAW). The image you see in your display on your camera should show the detail of parts of the frame that you don't even really quite want to see and the parts you DO want to see should be slightly overblown. Why? Because you can back the brightness down in post processing to darken up areas, but you CANNOT brighten up a pitch black space in post processing to bring in details that the camera simply did not record. This takes a bit of practice to get the hang of pushing it far enough without pushing it too far.
• bracket! Take several pictures of varying exposures so you have multiple options available to you when you get home and don't have to necessarily go back.
• Aperture matters in more ways than one... did you know a smaller aperture will cause refraction of the light around the aperture blades, resulting in stars? The trick is you don't want to stop down so much that you lose too much sharpness in the overall image. Generally most lenses will give a nice star effect around F/8.
• Focus manually - you said yourself you couldn't focus... that's because there isn't enough light and/or you are too far away for your focus assist light to help. Flip to manual focus. It's not easy, but it works.
• If focusing long distances manual-focus to infinity on your lens. Be aware that some lenses are mismarked, so check your mark during the day and make a small mark on your lens so you know where true infinity is.
• EDIT: I forgot... put it in ISO 100 or 200 (whatever is your lowest native ISO) and lock it there. If you have a tripod, there's no real reason for you to have high iso.
• EDIT: I hope you have a remote shutter release... if you don't, but one. If you can't, set a 5-10 second delay and do a timed release on your camera. DO NOT just press the button and take a picture while the camera is on the 'pod. Camera shake=not your friend.

Those are some of the basics. There are some other really nasty tricks like shutter lock-up and stuff, but start with these.


Here's one of my more recent shots taken at night: (by way of example)

 

[thebeatles]

There are some other really nasty tricks like shutter lock-up and stuff, but start with these.


Here's one of my more recent shots taken at night: (by way of example)

Nice shot :thumbup: And yes, mirror lock up will eliminate even more shake. Your pictures don't really look blurry though, maybe a bit out of focus on a couple I suppose.

 

[matt62485]

With all due respect, there is a lot of misinformation and partial information in this thread. Don't always assume what any random person on the net tells you is correct... and that includes me.

I try not to, but I will take each with a grain of salt and expand from them if they work.

First off, I don't really see any noise in these, so I don't know what folks are talking about. Granted, I'm on my 15" laptop screen, but seriously... I don't see any appreciable level of noise, even in the dark areas (where noise could be prevalent even in lower ISO pictures on shorter exposures)

Well not these so much as my others, the first one is pretty grainy to me

I don't know what kind of camera you are using, but most of the cameras with the long-exposure (previously called longer shutter) resulting in noise problems were older CCD based cameras. The sensor heats up horrifically, causing errors in the readings, resulting in noise. Now I'll be honest in that I haven't gone to check in on whether my theory here is exactly correct, the core of the problem is essentially the same... long exposure=heat=noise. Still, I don't see noise in your images.

I'm using a D40 and the equipment in my sig


Composition elements aside, there are some technical tricks to making night photography work. They are:

• Shoot in RAW(!) - This will allow you to do a couple critical things and not worry too much about off light readings since light colors are really wacky at night. I do shoot in RAW, for PP reasons... Thanks!
• Overexpose!!! You want to purposely overexpose your image slightly (note that this really only works with RAW). The image you see in your display on your camera should show the detail of parts of the frame that you don't even really quite want to see and the parts you DO want to see should be slightly overblown. Why? Because you can back the brightness down in post processing to darken up areas, but you CANNOT brighten up a pitch black space in post processing to bring in details that the camera simply did not record. This takes a bit of practice to get the hang of pushing it far enough without pushing it too far. Good point, I'll take this into consideration
• bracket! Take several pictures of varying exposures so you have multiple options available to you when you get home and don't have to necessarily go back. I tend to do this anways, since I'm in a learning phase, to see what works best
• Aperture matters in more ways than one... did you know a smaller aperture will cause refraction of the light around the aperture blades, resulting in stars? The trick is you don't want to stop down so much that you lose too much sharpness in the overall image. Generally most lenses will give a nice star effect around F/8.So never really want to shoot wide open either? I'll try some around F/8-11
• Focus manually - you said yourself you couldn't focus... that's because there isn't enough light and/or you are too far away for your focus assist light to help. Flip to manual focus. It's not easy, but it works. I'll give it a shot, I'm afraid I'll fubar the shots though lol
• If focusing long distances manual-focus to infinity on your lens. Be aware that some lenses are mismarked, so check your mark during the day and make a small mark on your lens so you know where true infinity is.Ah ok, thanks!
• EDIT: I forgot... put it in ISO 100 or 200 (whatever is your lowest native ISO) and lock it there. If you have a tripod, there's no real reason for you to have high iso. 200 on mine... I'm going to do this from now on
• EDIT: I hope you have a remote shutter release... if you don't, but one. If you can't, set a 5-10 second delay and do a timed release on your camera. DO NOT just press the button and take a picture while the camera is on the 'pod. Camera shake=not your friend. I do, bought one the first week I got the camera

Those are some of the basics. There are some other really nasty tricks like shutter lock-up and stuff, but start with these.

Thanks again, and awesome shot! :thumbup:

Here's one of my more recent shots taken at night: (by way of example)

nice! thanks a ton ^ replied in bold

 

[matt62485]

There are some other really nasty tricks like shutter lock-up and stuff, but start with these.


Here's one of my more recent shots taken at night: (by way of example)

Nice shot :thumbup: And yes, mirror lock up will eliminate even more shake. Your pictures don't really look blurry though, maybe a bit out of focus on a couple I suppose.

I have no idea with mirror lock up is nor do I think I've seen it on my D40

and OOF = blur in some respect I thought? :idea: i know theres different types of blur though

 

[thebeatles]

I have no idea with mirror lock up is nor do I think I've seen it on my D40

and OOF = blur in some respect I thought? :idea: i know theres different types of blur though

Read your manual, mirror lock up eliminates the movement of the mirror when you release the shutter by leaving the mirror up I believe. I am a noobie too maybe I should read the manual to make sure I got it right. And yes, a OOF shot is blurry in some respect, but not nearly as bad as motion blur from the camera. Usually OOF shots just look soft to me, whereas a shaken camera or something of that nature creates a truly blurry photo to me.

 

[matt62485]

I have no idea with mirror lock up is nor do I think I've seen it on my D40

and OOF = blur in some respect I thought? :idea: i know theres different types of blur though

Read your manual. And yes, a OOF shot is blurry in some respect, but not nearly as bad a motion blur from the camera. Usually OOF shots just look soft to me, where as a shaken camera or something of that nature creates a truly blurry photo to me.

that makes sense, if theres motion blur it had to be from the VR being on? bc my tripod is sturdy and it wasnt windy and i released remotely. ive read my manual front to back when i first got it. mustve been something i didnt focus on too much as i was learing to basics. and actually now i think about it... i know exactly where its at :thumbup::mrgreen:

 

[manaheim]

Sorry missed the equipment list. I don't know if the D40 has mirror lockup, but again... that something for a later day. Get the basics down first.

On wide open vs. not... generally lenses are never at their best at any extreme... aperture or zoom. Each lens is different, but most lenses are sharpest a couple stops down and between 1/3 and 2/3 of the zoom range. That said, you have to pick what works best for you and what gives you the shot you want. The key is only to be aware of the limitations of your choices, not to avoid those choices entirely.

btw, that 50mm 1.8 is a BADASS lens and produces some AMAZING stars and SHARP SHARP pictures... if you can fit your subject in frame using that lens (or feel like stitching), using the 50mm is awesome.

Don't work on everything at once though... try to figure it out a piece at a time and you should be in good shape.

Oh, btw, depending on what D40 you have I do believe it has the old CCD sensor that is in my D100 which can be SUPER noisy on long exposures. That said, your images didn't look that noisy to me, so perhaps not.