First DSLR

[goodguy]

Hi all, I'm sure you get tired of the same ole question. I'm wanting to purchase my first camera. I'm interested in taking outside still shots, scenery, birds and mountain ranges. I'm considering a Nikon D5200 for a beginnners camera. Any thoughts or something else?

Thanks
Randy

D5200 is one of the best camera for the money you can get at the moment.
Same sensor as the D7100 so you are looking at great dynamic range, great low light performance and the swiveling screen is a bonus.

 

[robbins.photo]

The thing to keep in mind though is that for some folks that is not the most important consideration when buying a camera, and as such I don't fault them for deciding to go with Canon. If they find the Canon's image quality acceptable and are more interested in other features that a Canon offers them then great, maybe Canon is the best choice for them personally. For me I my primary concern was image quality, I wanted the best I could afford, so for me the Nikon made more sense.

When I made the leap into Canon, I did it from simply two reasons: 1.) I could operate a Canon much easier than a Nikon (from an ergonomic standpoint) and 2.) I had the option of picking up a super great package deal with a T3 and two lenses at Sam's Club. Granted, in retrospect this is obviously ill-advised. I bought all sorts of Canon gear and didn't realize what it all meant. Because I had Canon gear, and subsequently learned the Canon system, I never switched to Nikon.

If I had to do it all over again, I may have just gone with Nikon. I can still get the images and quality I want, and the only people that ever really see my pictures are on social media and family, and they can't tell the difference like I can. But I'm also my own worst critic.

I bought Nikon because I had limited budget and my biggest concern was still image quality followed by low light performance. Nikon gave me the best I could get in those two categories based on my budget. If I had a higher budget and had been looking at full frame, well who knows. Also if I'd been looking at doing more video, I probably would have gone Canon. If shooting speed were at the top of my list, most likely Pentax or perhaps Canon based on what my budget was and what other features were really important. I'm not really "brand specific" kind of guy myself, just whatever gives me the best options for my money.

In the end I'm very happy with my choice to invest in Nikon, and while I might someday decide to invest a bit in another brand of camera system I'll probably always be a Nikon shooter. But I know a ton of folks who are equally happy with their choice of Canon, because it gives them the sort of features they are looking for, and in the end that's all that really matters.

 

[robbins.photo]

Sounds terrific. Is it possible?

I don't see why not. Your happy with your Canon, I'm happy with my Nikon, and if we can figure out what will make the OP happy we can recommend the best camera for his/her needs. Problem solved, synergy, win win and all that.. lol

 

[brian_f2.8]

As much of a Nikon guy as I am ( lets avoid the Nikon vs Canon argument ), dont all Canon's have a built in af motor? As stated earlier a t3i would be a great start. Canon is coming out with a 400mm IS f5.6. This body / lens combo would be a great start to getting into wild life photography. In a year or two, the 7D mII would be a great upgrade.

 

[robbins.photo]

As much of a Nikon guy as I am ( lets avoid the Nikon vs Canon argument ), dont all Canon's have a built in af motor? As stated earlier a t3i would be a great start. Canon is coming out with a 400mm IS f5.6. This body / lens combo would be a great start to getting into wild life photography. In a year or two, the 7D mII would be a great upgrade.

Sigma makes a really good 150-500 mm in a variety of mounts, got my eye on one myself. Tamron also recently announced a 150-600 mm which should also be available soon in a variety of mounts, still waiting to see some more sample shots and reviews before deciding if I might go that route, so really for telephoto Nikon/Canon really won't matter as much since there are really good telephoto lenses available for both.

Problem with a T3i for wildlife is it only has a 9 point autofocus system which would be a bit of a challenge I would think. It also has top burst speed of 3.7 FPS so if I were going to consider Canon I'd probably lean more towards a 50 or 60 D as opposed to the T3I

 

[Luigi_xp]

Based on...?


And define "better"

Based on camera performance. Overall better, broader, more usable - ISO, dynamic range, color depth, better ergonomics.
Some years back Canon cameras had better performing image sensors than Nikon camera had.

Except the entry-level compact Nikon's, all other Nikon DSLR cameras have a built-in intervalometer, none of Canon's cameras do.

All of Nikon's cameras have color aware metering, only some of Canon's cameras do (60D and up).

Nikon has not appreciably changed their lens mount since 1959, so most Nikon legacy lens made since then will mount on just about any Nikon SLR/DSLR with out the need for an adapter.
In the same time period Canon has changed their lens mount several times - from the R-mount in use in 1959, to the FL-mount (4/64), to the FD-mount (3/71), to the EF mount ('87) and adding the EF-S mount for crop sensor Canon cameras ('03).
Canon EF-S lenses cannot be mounted on Canon EF camera bodies.

Whoa, whoa, whoa....easy on all the facts there Keith!!! Canon shooters hate to hear this kinda' stuff...that's why they try and throw DxO Mark's sensor testing results into disrepute every chance they get. MAYBE some day, Canon will manage to crack the top 20 with camera at DxO Mark... DxOMark by DxO Labs - DxOMark

They say the 36mp D800 has better low light performance than the 22 5D mark iii. While alomst any review say the opposite.
The D800 sensor is good, incridible detailed, but with such a huge pixel conut the low light performance is affected.
I like nikon gear, they make insanely great camera gear, but DxO mark is flawed at provide comparasions from cameras. The image from both nikon and canon are great.
And sincerly, the image quality of both brands. is identical nowdays, comparing cameras of the same price. Worry more at usuablility and the features you more like, from both systems.

 

[apaflo]

They say the 36mp D800 has better low light performance than the 22 5D mark iii. While alomst any review say the opposite.
The D800 sensor is good, incridible detailed, but with such a huge pixel conut the low light performance is affected.
I like nikon gear, they make insanely great camera gear, but DxO mark is flawed at provide comparasions from cameras. The image from both nikon and canon are great.
And sincerly, the image quality of both brands. is identical nowdays, comparing cameras of the same price. Worry more at usuablility and the features you more like, from both systems.

The Canon 5D3 sensor has a Quantum Efficiency of 49%, which is the highest of current Canon models with the single exception of the Canon 6D at 50%. All current Nikon modles are over 50% with the sole exception of the Nikon D3200 at 43%. The D800 is the highest at 56%, the D4, D600, and D5200 are all at 53%, with the D7100 at 52%.

The Canon 5D3 has 2.3 fstops wprse read noise than the Nikon D800 at ISO 12,800. The 5D3 has 0.1 fstop more dynamic range at ISO 12,800 than the Nikon D800, and simarly less than the D800 at all lower ISO's. It would appear that the low light ability of the D800 is better than that of the 5D3. Below ISO 2546, where they are about equal, the D800 is both linear and has increasingly greater dynamic range than the 5D3.

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO
Read Noise in ADUs versus ISO

It would appear the two cameras are about equal between ISO 800 to 1600, and either up or down from that the D800 is superior.

That is pretty much the story of comparing sensor characteristics between current Canon and Nikon models. At the high end Canon is within a hair's width of being as good as Nikon for low light, but nothing even close in terms of dynamic range at lower ISO values. For mid-level cameras only Nikon's models currently rival their top of the line cameras.

If the choice is made based on sensor quality alone, Nikon wins hands down. But except for 1) high dynamic range at lower ISO values and 2) high pixel count, the differences probably don't affect most people as much as other differences such as which lenses they prefer or already own, and the distinction between Nikon and Canon concepts of a user interface.

For a first DSLR it might be very hard technically to justify anything other than Nikon.

 

[Derrel]

The biggest problem today is that there are TOO MANY CAMERAS for the beginner to choose from. Years ago, I sold cameras and video cameras, back in my early 20's. In those days there were fewer choices, but more BRANDS of 35mm SLR type cameras than there are today. Today, there are Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Pentax, and Olympus makes the OM-D EM-1, which is a mirrorless, but SLR-like camera, and it is winning the Camera of The Year awards left and right for its engineering, feel, and HANDLING, as well as outstanding image quality.

You want to like whatever you buy. So, figure out how much money you want to spend. That is step 1. Step 2 is to go to a store, and handle the possible choices. Step three is to buy. Step four is to read the manual. Step 5 is learning to use the camera. Step 25 is selling household items to pay for exotic macro accessories. Step 50 is financing trips to the jungles of Borneo to shoot macro shots of rare insects.

The bigest issue is paralysis through over-analysis. You want the BEST possible camera for the LEAST money, today? Buy a Nikon D5300.

You want the best d-slr that can last a decade? Buy a Nikon D7100.

You want a camera you will LOVE? Buy an Olympus OM-D EM-1.

 

[brian_f2.8]

Sigma makes a really good 150-500 mm in a variety of mounts, got my eye on one myself. Tamron also recently announced a 150-600 mm which should also be available soon in a variety of mounts, still waiting to see some more sample shots and reviews before deciding if I might go that route, so really for telephoto Nikon/Canon really won't matter as much since there are really good telephoto lenses available for both. Problem with a T3i for wildlife is it only has a 9 point autofocus system which would be a bit of a challenge I would think. It also has top burst speed of 3.7 FPS so if I were going to consider Canon I'd probably lean more towards a 50 or 60 D as opposed to the T3I

Good thing you did research. Try n find a good used 7D. Sigma is the only off brand I'd buy. Good quality and feel. I've played with a tamron, the zoom stuck, it wasn't smooth like a lens should be.

Here is the most important thing you need to know about photography - this won't be your last camera or lens, it's an expensive addicting hobby!

 

[Luigi_xp]

Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800 noise | Cameralabs
Just check this. Real world example is much better than techincal bull****. (Even as i geek that like being techincal, most of times means nothing in real world)
Face it, Canon has lower noise, Nikon has more detail.
Fanboy brands wars doenst help anyone, except the brand. Both have their weakness and strenghts, and the owner will like the image quality of both canon and nikon.
Babying and treating your brands is bad.

 

[Derrel]

AND here's the "other" side of the Canon vs Nikon debate...look here, and watch as the Canon at its BASE ISO level performs as only an outdated sensor can...Canon is realllly sucking hard in this example....

Part II - Controlled tests

I'm not impressed by ANY image shot at ISO 25,600 or over 50,000 ISO...no matter what the camera, those images offer execrable quality. But, the Canon fanboys loooove to talk about miniscule advantages they think they see at sky high-ISO values.

The thing is--Canon is ONLY even remotely close to Nikon in the 1DX and the 5D Mark III and the 6D...the remainder of the Canon line is seriously behind the times, technologically speaking, and is basically built around the same 18-MP sensor that Canon debuted in the 7D back in 2009...no real, appreciable improvement since 2009 for Canon users, UNLESS they buy one of the three Canon full-frame models...

Nikon is using MUCH newer sensors made by SONY, and by Toshiba in its APS-C cameras. Pentax is using the same SONY-madse sensors as Nikon. SONY is using their own sensors. In both FF and APS-C, Sony and Nikon, and in APS-C, Pentax also, have the best-performing sensors. Sorry Canon, but it's true. The lead Canon once had has been lost, due to FAILURE to update its outdated .50 micron sensor fab machinery to the newer, better .18 micron fabrication process that Sony and Toshiba have invested in.

For the user who is going to buy a brand-new APS-C d-slr, the advantages Nikon offers in image quality are, I think pretty compelling. In FF d-slr, I think Canon makes a compelling value proposition with the 6D.

Canon on the other hand, sells more cameras. Just as Toyota sells more cars than BMW. But sales numbers do not mean that the product is "better" in any way...only more popular, or more widely-sold, or whatever.

 

[apaflo]

Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800 noise | Cameralabs

Any such comparison done with JPEG images, and judged by sight, is not impartial, not unbiased, and hardly valid.

If they can't measure the difference in a repeatable fashion using the raw sensor data, it isn't trustworthy.

Real world example is much better than techincal bull****.

Well, actually its one advantage is that by looking for the right example you can find one that agrees with the opinion you want to support.

I'd rather form an opinion from valid technical data.

 

[pez]

Unless you just have to have an articulating LCD or are video crazy, I think the weather-proof Pentax K-50 is a better choice for a first camera. It's tried and true Sony sensor has been developed to a fine level, with great DR, the menus are intuitive, and controls are right where they should be.

 

[Luigi_xp]

AND here's the "other" side of the Canon vs Nikon debate...look here, and watch as the Canon at its BASE ISO level performs as only an outdated sensor can...Canon is realllly sucking hard in this example....

Part II - Controlled tests

I'm not impressed by ANY image shot at ISO 25,600 or over 50,000 ISO...no matter what the camera, those images offer execrable quality. But, the Canon fanboys loooove to talk about miniscule advantages they think they see at sky high-ISO values.

The thing is--Canon is ONLY even remotely close to Nikon in the 1DX and the 5D Mark III and the 6D...the remainder of the Canon line is seriously behind the times, technologically speaking, and is basically built around the same 18-MP sensor that Canon debuted in the 7D back in 2009...no real, appreciable improvement since 2009 for Canon users, UNLESS they buy one of the three Canon full-frame models...

Nikon is using MUCH newer sensors made by SONY, and by Toshiba in its APS-C cameras. Pentax is using the same SONY-madse sensors as Nikon. SONY is using their own sensors. In both FF and APS-C, Sony and Nikon, and in APS-C, Pentax also, have the best-performing sensors. Sorry Canon, but it's true. The lead Canon once had has been lost, due to FAILURE to update its outdated .50 micron sensor fab machinery to the newer, better .18 micron fabrication process that Sony and Toshiba have invested in.

For the user who is going to buy a brand-new APS-C d-slr, the advantages Nikon offers in image quality are, I think pretty compelling. In FF d-slr, I think Canon makes a compelling value proposition with the 6D.

Canon on the other hand, sells more cameras. Just as Toyota sells more cars than BMW. But sales numbers do not mean that the product is "better" in any way...only more popular, or more widely-sold, or whatever.

The first one was expected, due to the sensor resolution.
Yep, you proved your point. The highlight recovery on the D800 sensor is much better, proving it's ahead of Canon on read SNR. (i did see that the 22mp 5dmk3 image was interpolated to 36mp, which obviously greatly exagereted the mark iii noise, but even in original resolution i think the difference can be seen.)
I've always known Nikon has an edge on image quality, but it's very unlikely you will see them on real world shooting.
Sometimes i think i should did go with nikon, but i like far more the canon "way of doing things."

due to FAILURE to update its outdated .50 micron sensor fab machinery to the newer, better .18 micron fabrication process that Sony and Toshiba have invested in.

Canon still uses .50 micron process? my gosh, this is old as hell. even my smartphone camera has a better process.

 

[Randydan]

Hi all, thanks for all the replies. Well I read all the replies and I'm now more confused then I was before. But as I slowly read them over and over, you are all teaching me things I had no idea about. Also, I didn't mean to start a Nikon, Cannon war.

Let me try this again and be more specific. My mistake.

This will be a new hobby for me that I think I might like to do. I only have around $800-$1000 to spend. I know it's not much but for now it's alot for me. I was considering a Nikon D5200 since they are getting cheaper since the D5300 is out. I did look at the D7100 and it's just a little over my budget. I will consider refurbished. If I like the hobby I'm sure this won't be my only camera body. I would like to consider a brand Nikon, Cannon or something else that I could grow with as far a lenses go.


I like to shoot pictures of wildlife and taking pictures outside of old barns and scenery. I'm not interested in taking photos of people, weddings or the like. I ride my atv in the forrest and and have seen all sorts of wildlife and scenery and would love to take nice pictures of it. I'm camera stupid and I'm looking for something that would take nice pictures and something I can learn out of the auto mode. And if I buy extra lenses, would like to be able to use on a better body someday.

I just might bite the bullet and go for a Nikon D7100, because I have read in your posts that you can get older lenses for cheaper.

Hope I'm not confusing anyone, and I appreciate all of your replies and imput.

Thanks
Randy