Formatting SD Cards

imagerunner · Oct 31, 2016

Hey all,

I've been having a problem I'm noticing and wondering if anyone else has noticed it and maybe has a solution.

I fill my SD cards pretty regularly, part of it is photos, but the majority has been video footage.

What I have noticed is that each time I reformat my SD card, I get less and less space each time. On my current card, I used to get 8 hours of video recording time. Now I'm getting less than 6 hours on the exact same settings.

I have reformatted the card, with gut level erasing, but still can't seem to get anymore time. Any suggestions?

Advanced Photo · Oct 31, 2016

Why are you reformatting it? Are you using it with a different file system each time? All you need to do is erase the files and leave the format as it is.
Time is not the important factor, the thing that matters is file size and number of files. Each file needs to be addressed and that takes some space.

photo1x1.com · Oct 31, 2016

Hey,
interesting, I never heard about that. Did you check the capacity in your operating system (used and available)?
Did you format on the computer AND in camera, any difference?
I don't know about windows, but on a mac if you put files in the trash, they stay on the SD card until you empty the trash. But that should not affect formatting, should it?
Maybe there are partitions on the drive?

Frank F. · Oct 31, 2016

There is one possible scientific explanation:

Any Memory card is specified for a certain capacity & amount of write cycles.

Because there is wear (memory cells die), the amount of memory cells is significantly higher than the specified capacity.

With each write cycle, memory cells die and are replaced by these excess cells. Expected result: The specified capacity stays the same over the specified amount of write cycles.

After all excess cells are used up, the capacity fades away.

Writing to a card will cost you one write cycle for every cell affected. If the card is half full, this will only affect half of the cells.

If you move the recorded video from the card to a computer, it will not be erased physically (because this would cause a write cycle and degrade the card), it is only flaggged as "deleted", so that the cells are free to be written again.

If you do a low level format you will without any profit use up a write cycle on each and every cell flagged "active" at that moment, so do not do this.

There are several tools on the web that can tell you about the health of you card, the real capacity, make and so on.

In the past there were cards sold that did not have enough excess cells to survive a decent amount of write cycles (esp fake Sandisk Cards). This fraud can also be identified by these tools. You might want to check this out: H2testw | heise Download

H2testw English Windows

Frank F. · Oct 31, 2016

Possible links for further reading: https://www.google.de/search?q=iden...efox-b-ab&gfe_rd=cr&ei=w6cXWJjPEKeP8Qfe-7qICA

Advanced Photo · Oct 31, 2016

1 - Download and install this software (from the SD card Organization) :
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/eula_windows/SDFormatterv4.zip

2 - Open the program, and select the right drive (the drive letter for the card), after that just click "FORMAT"

imagerunner · Oct 31, 2016

Advanced Photo said:
Why are you reformatting it? Are you using it with a different file system each time? All you need to do is erase the files and leave the format as it is.
Time is not the important factor, the thing that matters is file size and number of files. Each file needs to be addressed and that takes some space.

The Photos and videos I take are all linked to an NDA. reformatting the SD card is an actual part of the agreement. They are often checked before I can leave or get paid. I've been thinking about just buying new cards, but I'm cheap, lol

imagerunner · Oct 31, 2016

photo1x1.com said:
Hey,
interesting, I never heard about that. Did you check the capacity in your operating system (used and available)?
Did you format on the computer AND in camera, any difference?
I don't know about windows, but on a mac if you put files in the trash, they stay on the SD card until you empty the trash. But that should not affect formatting, should it?
Maybe there are partitions on the drive?

Well, I use a Mac. But I'm not just deleting the files. I'm reformatting the SD altogether.

imagerunner · Oct 31, 2016

Frank F. said:
There is one possible scientific explanation:

Any Memory card is specified for a certain capacity & amount of write cycles.

Because there is wear (memory cells die), the amount of memory cells is significantly higher than the specified capacity.

With each write cycle, memory cells die and are replaced by these excess cells. Expected result: The specified capacity stays the same over the specified amount of write cycles.

After all excess cells are used up, the capacity fades away.

Writing to a card will cost you one write cycle for every cell affected. If the card is half full, this will only affect half of the cells.

If you move the recorded video from the card to a computer, it will not be erased physically (because this would cause a write cycle and degrade the card), it is only flaggged as "deleted", so that the cells are free to be written again.

If you do a low level format you will without any profit use up a write cycle on each and every cell flagged "active" at that moment, so do not do this.

There are several tools on the web that can tell you about the health of you card, the real capacity, make and so on.

In the past there were cards sold that did not have enough excess cells to survive a decent amount of write cycles (esp fake Sandisk Cards). This fraud can also be identified by these tools. You might want to check this out: H2testw | heise Download

H2testw English Windows

Good information. Makes total sense. I was just making sure that it wasn't leaving any residual information.

KmH · Oct 31, 2016

The memory cards we use in digital cameras are flash memory. NAND flash memory to be more specific.
NAND flash memory can withstand about 100,000 program–erase cycles 'memory wear' begins to deteriorate the integrity of the storage.

Flash memory cannot be 'erased'.
What is known as block erasing just writes a 1 to every memory location.
When we format a memory card the header for each group of memory locations (blocks) where a digital image file is stored is updated showing that group of memory locations is again available. The digital image data that was last written to that group of blocks is still there and will be over-written when you make new image files (video or stills). Remember that video is just a lot of still photos shot per second.

NAND flash memory devices require bad block management by the device driver software, or by a separate controller chip. SD cards, for example, include controller circuitry to perform bad block management and wear leveling.

I suspect something other than memory wear is the culprit. Something like a feature that has gotten turned on in your camera that does not noticeably affect the look of your video.

Be sure you format the card in the camera you are going to use so the card has the correct FAT (File Allocation Table) format for that camera.

imagerunner · Oct 31, 2016

KmH said:
The memory cards we use in digital cameras are flash memory. NAND flash memory to be more specific.
NAND flash memory can withstand about 100,000 program–erase cycles 'memory wear' begins to deteriorate the integrity of the storage.

Flash memory cannot be 'erased'.
What is known as block erasing just writes a 1 to every memory location.
When we format a memory card the header for each group of memory locations (blocks) where a digital image file is stored is updated showing that group of memory locations is again available. The digital image data that was last written to that group of blocks is still there and will be over-written when you make new image files (video or stills). Remember that video is just a lot of still photos shot per second.

NAND flash memory devices require bad block management by the device driver software, or by a separate controller chip. SD cards, for example, include controller circuitry to perform bad block management and wear leveling.

I suspect something other than memory wear is the culprit. Something like a feature that has gotten turned on in your camera that does not noticeably affect the look of your video.

Be sure you format the card in the camera you are going to use so the card has the correct FAT (File Allocation Table) format for that camera.

Maybe I need to try a different formatting program on my mac. Any suggestions?

Advanced Photo · Oct 31, 2016

imagerunner said:
photo1x1.com said:

Hey,
interesting, I never heard about that. Did you check the capacity in your operating system (used and available)?
Did you format on the computer AND in camera, any difference?
I don't know about windows, but on a mac if you put files in the trash, they stay on the SD card until you empty the trash. But that should not affect formatting, should it?
Maybe there are partitions on the drive?

Click to expand...

Well, I use a Mac. But I'm not just deleting the files. I'm reformatting the SD altogether.

Option 1: Install bootcamp and install windows on it and boot into windows and follow the instructions for reformatting.
Option 2: Get a laptop or desktop with windows installed on it and follow the instructions for reformatting.
Option 3: Buy a new SD card.
Option 4: Use the formatter for Mac. lol

https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/eula_mac/SDFormatter_4.00B.pkg

table1349 · Oct 31, 2016

Format in Camera.
Memory Card Best Practices: 15 Things You Should Already Be Doing

Advanced Photo · Oct 31, 2016

gryphonslair99 said:
Format in Camera. From the makers of Sandisk. The only cards I use.
Memory Card Best Practices: 15 Things You Should Already Be Doing

Sandisk is Western Digital now.

fmw · Nov 1, 2016

Advanced Photo said:
Why are you reformatting it? Are you using it with a different file system each time? All you need to do is erase the files and leave the format as it is.
Time is not the important factor, the thing that matters is file size and number of files. Each file needs to be addressed and that takes some space.

Formatting is much easier and faster?