Fruit & Vegetable Stand

[Derrel]

My brother has run his own fruit and vegetable business and an associated truck garden for the better part of the last 25 years...I am familiar with how cluttery that business actually can be! Signs here, signs there, stacks of plastic produce crates, hand-made signs, cardboard boxes, wooden crates, hand trucks, refrigerated cases, coolers, and so on. Cluttered as heck. And very, very real. Somehow you've managed to capture the underlying essence of the retail produce business.

Apparently people who've never spent much time inside of a produce stand are not appreciative of what one ****actually*** tends to look like when seen dispassionately...longing for a shopper in order to make the composition "complete", or to give it "a subject". The "subject" is the produce store and it inherent visual variety, the clutter, the hodge-podge of daily offerings, that an actual produce stand is built around. When you stock 66 veggies and fruits every day...it's not "tidy"...it's expansive. It's messy. Cluttery. You stock produce where it'll fit!

You captured essence, not just a rote, by the numbers, lifeless B&W rendition, or a dull, flat-lighted, lifeless, boring Ektachrome look out of a 1970's magazine. That's not going to please the representational, rigid types...they overlook essence, and want to see the by-the-numbers, Macbeth Color Checker look, and the Ansel Adamas f/64 perfect limitless DOF. Work a few shifts on the weekends at a busy produce business and this photo becomes something to appreciate...this is not "an advertisement" for a produce stand.

Expressionism versus Realism. Rembrandt versus Picasso.

 

[smoke665]

At this point, it would be hard to critique your image as it's not really known what your initial intent was. If as Derrel said above the intent was to capture the "essence" of what a fruit and vegetable stand actually looks like, then frankly the only thing more you could have done was have smells waft out of our monitors. If I were to see this on a wall, it would instantly bring to memory every past visits to a fruit and vegetable stand.

If your intent was something other than "realism" something more artistic, then it might have missed the mark. There is an art to making a "jumbled mess" look like something other than just a bunch of junk. I wish I knew how to direct you in this approach, but I'm clueless.

That said I find it a little upsetting that sometimes, it seems that rather than offering suggestions for improving the "photographers vision", there is a tendency to inflict our own vision by critiquing based on what we would have done, rather than helping the photographer achieve "his/her" goal. I admire all who are willing to step outside the box, to try something different, and more importantly to learn by your success and failure.

 

[loonatic45414]

Apparently people who've never spent much time inside of a produce stand are not appreciative ...

Work a few shifts on the weekends at a busy produce business and this photo becomes something to appreciate...

Art isn't created to be appreciated by a select few "in the know". Furthermore, I find it very antagonistic & apathetic that you find "your" vision to be somehow superior & the rest of us, the "color-by-numbers" crowd, as you put it, to be inferior, dare I say it, unworthy, unable to fully appreciate this no matter how hard we try to wrap our little meaningless brains devoid of such precious experience, around this.

We are the audience. The unappreciative, unclean, unwashed, ignorant masses. Please forgive us oh knowledgeable purveyor of citrus for we know not what we do. We know nothing of the world of Fuji, Gala or Granny Smith. We throw ourselves on your mercy.

I dare not comment on a picture of raw sewage lest I be put in my place by an underground sanitation engineer.

 

[jcdeboever]

Apparently people who've never spent much time inside of a produce stand are not appreciative ...

Work a few shifts on the weekends at a busy produce business and this photo becomes something to appreciate...

Art isn't created to be appreciated by a select few "in the know". Furthermore, I find it very antagonistic & apathetic that you find "your" vision to be somehow superior & the rest of us, the "color-by-numbers" crowd, as you put it, to be inferior, dare I say it, unworthy, unable to fully appreciate this no matter how hard we try to wrap our little meaningless brains devoid of such precious experience, around this.

We are the audience. The unappreciative, unclean, unwashed, ignorant masses. Please forgive us oh knowledgeable purveyor of citrus for we know not what we do. We know nothing of the world of Fuji, Gala or Granny Smith. We throw ourselves on your mercy.

I dare not comment on a picture of raw sewage lest I be put in my place by an underground sanitation engineer.

Not another one.... You missed his point.... Here, let me soften it for you.... I used to make that trek with my grandpa (last commercial farmer in Detroit) to the eastern market in Detroit at 4:00 AM as a boy, and this hit home to me. Not only that, it was way more neat and organized than gramps setup. I hardly ever see images like this and when I do, I wax poetic.

 

[Derrel]

I loved this one from you, loonatic: " My preference is muted, somber colors in dark, lifeless photos. But not always. I respect your view, but you wanted opinions & that's mine.

Feel free to criticize mine, I'd rather have useful input than 20 people parroting That's Great & Nice Capture."
*****
"....unappreciative, unclean, unwashed, ignorant masses"

Your stated preference for muted, somber-colored, lifeless photos makes me understand why you cannot appreciate anything that's not narrowly-defined by your own stated preferences.

"Muted, somber colors in dark,lifeless photos..." Wow...such lofty goals you have for photography!

 

[otherprof90 31]

At this point, it would be hard to critique your image as it's not really known what your initial intent was. If as Derrel said above the intent was to capture the "essence" of what a fruit and vegetable stand actually looks like, then frankly the only thing more you could have done was have smells waft out of our monitors. If I were to see this on a wall, it would instantly bring to memory every past visits to a fruit and vegetable stand.

If your intent was something other than "realism" something more artistic, then it might have missed the mark. There is an art to making a "jumbled mess" look like something other than just a bunch of junk. I wish I knew how to direct you in this approach, but I'm clueless.

That said I find it a little upsetting that sometimes, it seems that rather than offering suggestions for improving the "photographers vision", there is a tendency to inflict our own vision by critiquing based on what we would have done, rather than helping the photographer achieve "his/her" goal. I admire all who are willing to step outside the box, to try something different, and more importantly to learn by your success and failure.

Thanks for the very thoughtful comments.

 

[otherprof90 31]

Apparently people who've never spent much time inside of a produce stand are not appreciative ...

Work a few shifts on the weekends at a busy produce business and this photo becomes something to appreciate...

Art isn't created to be appreciated by a select few "in the know". Furthermore, I find it very antagonistic & apathetic that you find "your" vision to be somehow superior & the rest of us, the "color-by-numbers" crowd, as you put it, to be inferior, dare I say it, unworthy, unable to fully appreciate this no matter how hard we try to wrap our little meaningless brains devoid of such precious experience, around this.

We are the audience. The unappreciative, unclean, unwashed, ignorant masses. Please forgive us oh knowledgeable purveyor of citrus for we know not what we do. We know nothing of the world of Fuji, Gala or Granny Smith. We throw ourselves on your mercy.

I dare not comment on a picture of raw sewage lest I be put in my place by an underground sanitation engineer.

Fuji makes nice cameras and lenses. Gala was Dali's love and muse. I'm not sure who Granny Smith was. Time to lighten up.

 

[smoke665]

Feel free to criticize mine, I'd rather have useful input than 20 people parroting That's Great & Nice Capture.

Please jump right in, I know that most who comment here will give a fair and honest critique of your work. My suggestion would be to post your images in the General Gallery, with a notation that C&C appreciate.

 

[otherprof90 31]

2/16/17 Farmers Market L.A.View attachment 135253

I went back and gave it another try.

 

[smoke665]

Ok back to my original question, is this meant to be realism or artistic?

 

[jcdeboever]

2/16/17 Farmers Market L.A.View attachment 135253

I went back and gave it another try.View attachment 135866

Fantastic!

 

[otherprof90 31]

Ok back to my original question, is this meant to be realism or artistic?

I'm not sure how to answer. I was trying to make make a satisfying image of the stand, but I wan't trying to document it. But your question is really interesting. Would you say it is not possible to critique a photo or painting if we cannot get to know the intent of the artist, say because they are dead or unidentifief? I used to wonder when 400 year old portraits were praised because they "really caught the subject's personality." Thanks for all your comments.

 

[otherprof90 31]

2/16/17 Farmers Market L.A.View attachment 135253

I went back and gave it another try.View attachment 135866

Fantastic!

Thanks so much!

 

[smoke665]

Ok back to my original question, is this meant to be realism or artistic?

I'm not sure how to answer. I was trying to make make a satisfying image of the stand, but I wan't trying to document it. But your question is really interesting. Would you say it is not possible to critique a photo or painting if we cannot get to know the the intent of the artist, say because they are dead or unidentifief? I used to wonder when 400 year old portraits were praised because they "really caught the subject's personality." Thanks for all your comments.

Just a personal opinion, but before I started a carving or a piece of furniture or a turning, I had a vision of what the end result would be. When I started a drawing I had a vision of what the finished piece should look like. Before I snap the shutter, I've composed an image and have a preconceived idea of what I want to capture.

To answer your question, its easier (at least for me) to pick up on the artistic intention when photographs follow certain guidelines for composition (IE: primary subject, circles, lines, patterns, etc). If the artist deviates from the elements of composition then it leaves the viewer searching for answers.

Personally from a realism point I like the first one better, because of its randomness. The second one narrows the frame but in doing so makes previously random objects focal points. When I look at the 2nd one I see 3 things the bag stand in the center, the blue baskets on the floor, and the orange fruit on the left, none of which is very interesting.

The stand and baskets are in the first shot but their placement and prominence are such that they don't grab your attention.

 

[otherprof90 31]

Ok back to my original question, is this meant to be realism or artistic?

I'm not sure how to answer. I was trying to make make a satisfying image of the stand, but I wan't trying to document it. But your question is really interesting. Would you say it is not possible to critique a photo or painting if we cannot get to know the the intent of the artist, say because they are dead or unidentifief? I used to wonder when 400 year old portraits were praised because they "really caught the subject's personality." Thanks for all your comments.

Just a personal opinion, but before I started a carving or a piece of furniture or a turning, I had a vision of what the end result would be. When I started a drawing I had a vision of what the finished piece should look like. Before I snap the shutter, I've composed an image and have a preconceived idea of what I want to capture.

To answer your question, its easier (at least for me) to pick up on the artistic intention when photographs follow certain guidelines for composition (IE: primary subject, circles, lines, patterns, etc). If the artist deviates from the elements of composition then it leaves the viewer searching for answers.

Personally from a realism point I like the first one better, because of its randomness. The second one narrows the frame but in doing so makes previously random objects focal points. When I look at the 2nd one I see 3 things the bag stand in the center, the blue baskets on the floor, and the orange fruit on the left, none of which is very interesting.

The stand and baskets are in the first shot but their placement and prominence are such that they don't grab your attention.

When I first saw the fruit & vegetable stand, my only thought was "wow," and I didn't see an image in my mind, I saw the stand. Most of the creation of the image was after I got it on the screen of my laptop.
I know that sometimes I work in a deliberate way, carefully choosing focal length, distance, aperture, etc. and have a specific goal in mind, but often I just want to bring 'em back alive to make an image with. (Ironically, I use only the most basic post processing programs.)

Thinking about creativity, I am intrigued by the question, "How do you know when the work is finished?"
One popular answer is, "When it looks like the picture in my head." But that only raises the question, "How did you know when the picture in your head was finished?"

I like both images, but they are very different, as you point out. The second imposes order on the arrangement, while the first catches the order in the chaos, if that makes sense. Of course I only thought this out now, not at the time I created them. I think that is true of most explanations of the functions of elements of artworks. They may serve a function, but that was not clearly in the artist's mind at the time of creation.

Knowing the intent of the artist in any medium may allow us to judge them on how well they achieved the goal they have set, and allow us to help them better achieve it. And it is almost always interesting to get some backstory or learn about a person. But I still wonder if that is necessary, when it is possible, to appreciate or critique the artwork.