High ISO Noise Processing Help

[smoke665]

I routinely shoot higher ISO shots with a K3ii, and K1MII, so its nothing new for me. The other day, it was an overcast gray sky day, I bumped my ISO to 6400 to keep my aperture and shutter speed up , to eliminate motion blur and increase DOF. I made sure to expose for a full data file, ETTR to where the blinkies just started. Typically I'd have no problem cleaning them up in LR, but this time I'm struggling more than usual. I'm wondering if the neutral gray of the day might have messed me up?

 

[Strodav]

Raw or jpg? If you post the picture, someone might be able to try improving it and let you know how they did it.

 

[smoke665]

Raw or jpg? If you post the picture, someone might be able to try improving it and let you know how they did it.

I always shoot Raw. Please don't think I'm being rude, but rather than wasting time editing an image, as I mentioned in the post I've been doing this awhile, (my avatar was shot at ISO 25600). I'm advanced enough that if you describe your method/methods in a few words, I'll know where we are on the experience level, and whether it will help in this case.

 

[SquarePeg]

I routinely shoot higher ISO shots with a K3ii, and K1MII, so its nothing new for me. The other day, it was an overcast gray sky day, I bumped my ISO to 6400 to keep my aperture and shutter speed up , to eliminate motion blur and increase DOF. I made sure to expose for a full data file, ETTR to where the blinkies just started. Typically I'd have no problem cleaning them up in LR, but this time I'm struggling more than usual. I'm wondering if the neutral gray of the day might have messed me up?

People or something else? If it’s people then I think you’ve nailed it with your question. I had a terrible time with shooting high ISO when conditions gray when I used to shoot my daughter’s field hockey and softball events.

Hsve you tried Topaz Denoise?

If it’s a close up portrait I think the Remini app is amazing for that.

 

[smoke665]

I had a terrible time with shooting high ISO when conditions gray when I used to shoot my daughter’s field hockey and softball events.

Apparently it was, I was able to use LR masking separating sky and subject, in conjunction with noise and exposure adjustments to minimize most of the noise. I had my speedlight which would have made things easier, but I didn't want to mess with it in a crowd.

 

[weepete]

On difficult shots I'll sometimes do two or three shots in the sharpening and noise reduction panel. I find that sometimes getting the right balance between sharpening, detail, and masking can be tricky.

If anything, I prefer to leave a bit of noise in an image, rather than take the NR too far.

So, what I tend to do is zoom into 100%, set the initial points without masking, then apply the masking, then NR and do it again, paying particular attention to the detail, and radius sections (using the alt key to adjust). Then I'll leave it for a day or so and go back and tweek it all again.

 

[smoke665]

getting the right balance between sharpening, detail, and masking can be tricky.

If anything, I prefer to leave a bit of noise in an image, rather than take the NR too far.

Yes, you reach a point where there just isn't enough data in the shadows, in which case it's better to leave a little rather than have mush.

One thing that threw me off, is most of the work of late has been in studio, so getting light into the eyes isn't an issue. These were out side, on a gray cloudy days, moving subjects, and heavy crowds. In retrospect, not taking the speedlight was a mistake. Ambient light photos of people, without flash, generally result in somewhat dead eyes, raising the ISO, seems to makes it more so, unless you're close up.

 

[Strodav]

I always shoot Raw. Please don't think I'm being rude, but rather than wasting time editing an image, as I mentioned in the post I've been doing this awhile, (my avatar was shot at ISO 25600). I'm advanced enough that if you describe your method/methods in a few words, I'll know where we are on the experience level, and whether it will help in this case.

I rarely shoot at that high an ISO with any of my 4 Nikon bodies, but when I end up with objectionable noise I use Topaz Denoise AI, which, IMHO is slightly better than the PS noise reduction tools. There are a couple of techniques I use to avoid the situation. If you are in a still or slightly moving subject situation, take multiple shots and average them In PS. Another technique is to take the 1st shot at high ISO, then slow shutter speed by a stop while dropping the ISO by a stop and hold the shutter button down for 3 or 4 shots, then slow the shutter speed by a stop again along with dropping the ISO by a stop and take 6 to 8 shots, …. There is a very good chance you get at least one sharp image in the sequences at a lower ISO.

 

[smoke665]

@Strodav valid suggestions. Pentax supports in camera Additive, Average, and Bright which I've used on occasion. Unfortunately it doesn't work well with moving subjects. Both the k3II and the K1MII handle high ISO well but getting a proper exposure is critical, you can't underexpose.

The solution finally ended up being one of exposure. The sensor was reading the gray sky incorrectly giving me an image that was underexposed, even though the histogram was reading the highlights were just starting to blow. I had to raise the exposure by over a full stop post, then mask the sky and subject separately to adjust them individually for the proper exposure.

 

[SquarePeg]

@Strodav valid suggestions. Pentax supports in camera Additive, Average, and Bright which I've used on occasion. Unfortunately it doesn't work well with moving subjects. Both the k3II and the K1MII handle high ISO well but getting a proper exposure is critical, you can't underexpose.

The solution finally ended up being one of exposure. The sensor was reading the gray sky incorrectly giving me an image that was underexposed, even though the histogram was reading the highlights were just starting to blow. I had to raise the exposure by over a full stop post, then mask the sky and subject separately to adjust them individually for the proper exposure.

What metering mode were you using?

 

[smoke665]

What metering mode were you using?

Depends. On ambient, if time permits I'll use Spot to sample the image for a feel on DR, then use the Exp lock on what I need. Otherwise I'll use Center Weighted. In studio it's manual and my trusty Sekonic meter.

 

[SquarePeg]

Depends. On ambient, if time permits I'll use Spot to sample the image for a feel on DR, then use the Exp lock on what I need. Otherwise I'll use Center Weighted. In studio it's manual and my trusty Sekonic meter.

I meant at the time you had the noise issue.

 

[smoke665]

I meant at the time you had the noise issue.

"Depends. On ambient, if time permits I'll use Spot to sample the image for a feel on DR, then use the Exp lock on what I need. Otherwise I'll use Center Weighted" The answer would be both.

 

[Strodav]

@Strodav valid suggestions. Pentax supports in camera Additive, Average, and Bright which I've used on occasion. Unfortunately it doesn't work well with moving subjects. Both the k3II and the K1MII handle high ISO well but getting a proper exposure is critical, you can't underexpose.

The solution finally ended up being one of exposure. The sensor was reading the gray sky incorrectly giving me an image that was underexposed, even though the histogram was reading the highlights were just starting to blow. I had to raise the exposure by over a full stop post, then mask the sky and subject separately to adjust them individually for the proper exposure.

Just a couple of thoughts. I find I get better results setting exposure with a gray card (actually a QP Card 101 with white, black and 18% gray swatches) during the shoot and it acts as a reference for getting white point right in Post. Next, it is important to remember that the image you see on the camera's lcd panel is a jpg and the histograms are of the jpg image. So the camera settings impacting the raw to jpg conversion in the camera show up in the histograms. The histogram of the raw file can look different than the histogram of the jpg. One of the reasons you hear ETTR is because the raw file usually has about 1/3 of a stop more headroom in the highlights compared to the jpg.

 

[smoke665]

I find I get better results setting exposure with a gray card (actually a QP Card 101 with white, black and 18% gray swatches) during the shoot and it acts as a reference for getting white point right in Post.

Yes I do as well normally, depending on the circumstances I either use a small white/gray/black target or for more precise control X-Rite ColorColor Checker. However this was at a family event at Disney, wall to wall people, lot of movement, pretty much run and gun.