How much sensor do you really need?

[unpopular]

I built a 24x36" box camera once.

But the only film I had for it dextrochromatic and I didn't have anything to use for a safelight.

(bonus points to anyone who can guess what I mean by dextrochrome)

 

[Trever1t]

Sure, but if you were really going to dive headfirst into the art of photography, why not purchase the very best camera you can afford?

Otherwise, you end up buying it later

Two comments. In the first place, not all beginners know whether they intend to dive or not. Secondly, you can't put a DSLR in your pocket and carry it around conveniently when you aren't out shooting

I've owned and used Oustanding cameras from Hasselblad, Mamiya, Leica, Nikon - even the cambo view camera in my avatar. Yet the point and shoot is my latest camera purchase just so I can put it in my pocket in case I want to shoot something when I have nothing planned. I'll bet you would find one handy as well.

I said nothing about DSLR

OK, remove the term DSLR from my post and add "better camera" which you did mention. Why do we have to be so confrontational. Did I do something to you?

Sorry I didn't think o was being difficult, working and on a cell so short messages may not carry the message .

My point is still valid, in my opinion buy the best you can afford. Sure a phone can take a pretty picture but so can a pin hole.

 

[fmshoemaker]

There's an old saying that goes, "its not the machine, its the operator."

 

[SCraig]

There's an old saying that goes, "its not the machine, its the operator."

There's another old saying that goes, "The operator won't get much done without a good machine."

 

[fmshoemaker]

And another is, " if the operator isnt worth a sh1t, fire his a $$."

 

[Gary A.]

If questioned, my initial response would be ... If something is worth capturing ... Then capture it with the best equipment you have.

Albeit, you spoke of neophytes, which is probably a much different paradigm. But to the experienced I say use the best you have. (But practice what I say not what I do, as of late I've been awfully fond of the iPhone camera.)

 

[jcdeboever]

Canon SX60HS

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Ysarex]

I'm all in favor of a small portable pocket-size camera that can go along everywhere. I still identify my Samsung point and shoot EX-2 as my main camera because my main camera is the one I use the most -- everywhere I go it goes.

BUT, it took me a long time to find and settle on the EX-2. It's not so much about the size of the sensor. For me it's about taking the photo I want to take. I went through a bunch of smaller PS cameras and kept getting frustrated, because I would soon enough want to take a photo like this:

The phone cameras and most PS cameras can't take that photo. For me the bottom line was does it save a raw file? In the JPEG that my camera made from this exposure the highlights are all nuked to oblivion. I applied a +.3 EC when I shot this. It would be necessary to expose nearly a stop less to coax the camera JPEG processor to not blow the highlights and at that point you're not salvaging this photo from that underexposed JPEG.

Joe

 

[jake337]

I need more.

Like 8 x 10 inches more.

A fine pocket camera to be sure.

Never had a pocket camera. Never wanted one.

 

[jake337]

I'm all in favor of a small portable pocket-size camera that can go along everywhere. I still identify my Samsung point and shoot EX-2 as my main camera because my main camera is the one I use the most -- everywhere I go it goes.

BUT, it took me a long time to find and settle on the EX-2. It's not so much about the size of the sensor. For me it's about taking the photo I want to take. I went through a bunch of smaller PS cameras and kept getting frustrated, because I would soon enough want to take a photo like this:

View attachment 122729

The phone cameras and most PS cameras can't take that photo. For me the bottom line was does it save a raw file? In the JPEG that my camera made from this exposure the highlights are all nuked to oblivion. I applied a +.3 EC when I shot this. It would be necessary to expose nearly a stop less to coax the camera JPEG processor to not blow the highlights and at that point you're not salvaging this photo from that underexposed JPEG.

Joe

The Note 5 shoots in RAW!

 

[Ysarex]

I'm all in favor of a small portable pocket-size camera that can go along everywhere. I still identify my Samsung point and shoot EX-2 as my main camera because my main camera is the one I use the most -- everywhere I go it goes.

BUT, it took me a long time to find and settle on the EX-2. It's not so much about the size of the sensor. For me it's about taking the photo I want to take. I went through a bunch of smaller PS cameras and kept getting frustrated, because I would soon enough want to take a photo like this:

View attachment 122729

The phone cameras and most PS cameras can't take that photo. For me the bottom line was does it save a raw file? In the JPEG that my camera made from this exposure the highlights are all nuked to oblivion. I applied a +.3 EC when I shot this. It would be necessary to expose nearly a stop less to coax the camera JPEG processor to not blow the highlights and at that point you're not salvaging this photo from that underexposed JPEG.

Joe

The Note 5 shoots in RAW!

There are always a few exceptions! I know. And what's the range of it's optical zoom?

Joe

P.S. Just curious, what's the bit depth of it's ADC?

 

[jake337]

I'm all in favor of a small portable pocket-size camera that can go along everywhere. I still identify my Samsung point and shoot EX-2 as my main camera because my main camera is the one I use the most -- everywhere I go it goes.

BUT, it took me a long time to find and settle on the EX-2. It's not so much about the size of the sensor. For me it's about taking the photo I want to take. I went through a bunch of smaller PS cameras and kept getting frustrated, because I would soon enough want to take a photo like this:

View attachment 122729

The phone cameras and most PS cameras can't take that photo. For me the bottom line was does it save a raw file? In the JPEG that my camera made from this exposure the highlights are all nuked to oblivion. I applied a +.3 EC when I shot this. It would be necessary to expose nearly a stop less to coax the camera JPEG processor to not blow the highlights and at that point you're not salvaging this photo from that underexposed JPEG.

Joe

The Note 5 shoots in RAW!

There are always a few exceptions! I know. And what's the range of it's optical zoom?

Joe

P.S. Just curious, what's the bit depth of it's ADC?

Not even sure to be honest. Never use it.

 

[fmw]

Good discussion. I guess we have determined that small sensors are capable providing both a good learning platform for the novice photographer as well as great images. Whether the small sensor is in a pocket camera or a pocket cell phone is immaterial. All that matter is that the camera has the ability to allow the photographer to control the exposure.

 

[Overread]

I would argue that depth of field can be more easily learned with a larger sensor. Whilst a mobile phone has a very capable camera these days the depth of field differences between apertures will be harder to see in casual use compared to from a point and shoot- and then again compared to even a crop sensor DSLR.

As a result that aspect might be easier to learn on a larger sensor.

I would also say that controls and interface matter. It's a lot easier to learn on a camera that has at least one dedicated button/wheel to set settings rather than making the user go through menus.



However you don't even need a sensor; film cameras can teach you just the same. So long as you've aperture and shutterspeed to control you can learn exposure. ISO and ASA are a bonus (ASA of course for film will be fixed but it still factors into the exposure and you can always use different rolls of film for different variations in light sensitivity).


In the end the mechanics are the mechanics; better interfaces and responses help the user learn and focus on learning.







That said stepping away from mechancis we also have to consider mentality. Many people have a compermentalized view that SLR type cameras are serious cameras to use whilst point and shoots and phones are - well - point and shoot. They don't even consider to engage with the interfaces to vary things all that much (beyond filters) because its "not that kind of camera". Also linked to that is the reduced feedback on some settings with regard to what changes.
Sometimes a better camera DOES make someone learn better. IT changes their viewpoint and association and thus their attitude.

 

[sashbar]

I took this picture with a pre-smartphone era Nokia phone. Remember those with a small screen and big buttons? I have no idea what was the sensor size or pixels number (probably 2 Mp). Tried to replicate this shot with a full frame and APSC cameras later with inferior results.