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i sucks at landscapes.

dannylightning said:

Is this the kind of image you REALLY wanted to make? That of a building being drawn skyward by the force of the hand of an invisible giant?
 
dannylightning said:

Is this the kind of image you REALLY wanted to make? That of a building being drawn skyward by the force of the hand of an invisible giant?



It is kind of a nice effect if you're into X-Files style photos.

I'd hate to be inside that place though. I'd be afraid it was about to fall over on me.
 
dannylightning said:

Is this the kind of image you REALLY wanted to make? That of a building being drawn skyward by the force of the hand of an invisible giant?



yes, sort of, i was shooting that building up close in many different ways to see what kind of weird distortion it would produce, just kind of having fun with the lens really.

i cant say that i am good with this type of lens yet but i get the concept of how you are supposed to use it, its probably gonna take me a while to get the hang of it, so far i have not seen many things that i wanted to shoot that i though would work well with the wide angle except for that shot of a kitchen and that culdesec in those ones i was trying to use the lens properly, anything else so far has really just been playing around to see what would happen
 
I think that you are still thinking in terms of your image as a 3D object like the scene, which it is not. Your image is just a 2D representation of the scene and is enclosed in borders which you create. Your objects are just heights and widths in relation to the size of the frame, any depth is just an illusion.
If I deconstruct your image a little it might be clearer, and show the effects of wide angle lenses.
If you are thinking in terms of lines and depth as you would with a 3D object you tend to apply that framework every time you look at your image, so it can be a useful exercise to separate that and see the image as it is, a collection of 2D shapes. One way of doing that is to flip the image vertically as it abstracts it from the framework you are applying.

mod-1.webp


Now you can see the negative space a little clearer. Negative space is not a bad thing because it allows the shapes of your subject to be seen, it is the background with makes the subject visible. Here is marked the negative space and with it I have marked the heights of objects against the height of the frame.

mod-4.webp


So you can see the relationships in the 2D image space we can remove the image:

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See how small the tree is compared to the frame, see how much space there is above and below it.

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Here is the negative space in 2D, there is a lot of it around a fairly small tree.

Now we compare it with a cropped version:

mod-2.webp


And in 2D:

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You can see the difference here. Images are 2D objects, depth is just an illusion as they are only paper thin. There is no such thing as a large object far away in 2D, it's all about the size of your object compared to the frame.

Now look at your original again and try to see it in 2D, as a collection of shapes and sizes on a flat plane and how that image changes as you change these relationships.
 
I think that you are still thinking in terms of your image as a 3D object like the scene, which it is not. Your image is just a 2D representation of the scene and is enclosed in borders which you create. Your objects are just heights and widths in relation to the size of the frame, any depth is just an illusion.
If I deconstruct your image a little it might be clearer, and show the effects of wide angle lenses.
If you are thinking in terms of lines and depth as you would with a 3D object you tend to apply that framework every time you look at your image, so it can be a useful exercise to separate that and see the image as it is, a collection of 2D shapes. One way of doing that is to flip the image vertically as it abstracts it from the framework you are applying.

well i kind of get that, i guess there is allot more to landscape photos that i though.., if there were a bunch of nice clouds in the sky would that still be considered negative space? see i always though when you saw a nice scene al you really had to do was snap a photo of it and try to use the rule of 3rds for framing.

i just played around with cropping my image and after about 20 trys i got one that looked descent. than i looked at your crop and it was almost the same. i guess i really do not know what i am doing.

i like photos like this. seems to be lots of negative space in here but these sure look nice. i dont quite get it, what makes these work

Autumn Finale by Rob Blair

Silent Night by Rob Blair
 
Study the two photos and read again much of the advice you've been given (foreground, middle ground, background, subject, negative space, proper lens for the situation - you will start to understand why they work and why you like them. Take your time!
 
well here are some of the landscapes i have kept, i kind of like them but do not love them. i think the first 3 were taken at 10mm. but i was going for that really wide effect on those. last 2 pare probably around 18mm

View attachment 110507

Everyone else has some really awesome advice, and I don't really have much ground to offer professional critique or advice, but rather just speaking as an onlooker.

When I see this photo, I wish you got lower, showed more sky. It looks like every shot you took is from your regular height. It looks like you have come cool stuff, but I want to see a more interesting perspective - lay down on the ground and snap this, shorten the lake a little and give me some big exciting sky.

Just a thought, good luck in your landscape search man ;)
 
i like photos like this. seems to be lots of negative space in here but these sure look nice. i dont quite get it, what makes these work

Don't mis-understand negative space just because it's called negative, it does not subtract from the image. It is only negative as in the opposite of positive, it allows the positive space to come forward. Look at the stork photo again and ask if the photographer's use of composition has brought the subject to the front of the image and to your attention. Look at the image I de-constructed and run through the text again. Ask the same, has your use of composition brought your subject forward in the image or pushed it back? You don't need to fully understand this, you just need to be able to see it (and see when it's not there).
 
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thanks guys...
 
Well an good rule of thumb for landscapes is to have a defined foreground, middle ground and back ground. A good "subject" will help tie a good scene together by giving the image depth and scale.

This.
If you are using a wide lense, you have to avoid the empty fore/middle ground like plague. Construct you composition so that there is always a focal point of interest on the foreground and lines, leading to middle ground and further to the main landscape. Wide lense makes your image 3-dimentional, because it exaggerates the depth, and ignoring this dimension is the most widespread mistake committed by wide lenses users. You can not underestimate that. As an extreme example:
unnamed.webp
 
"i like photos like this. seems to be lots of negative space in here but these sure look nice. i dont quite get it, what makes these work

Autumn Finale by Rob Blair

Silent Night by Rob Blair"





More stuff you may not understand ...

I do rely heavily on the concept of personality type when it comes to education. From all that you've posted here, I'd guess you would not be a predominantly visual personality type. My guess is you favor the tactile experience of photography and this means you will struggle with the tools of composition employed within photography.

Which leads me to ask, what have you done to strengthen your composition skills?

Relying on the most basic rules of composition, a rule of thirds for example, as your guiding light to composition becomes increasingly boring as each shot becomes simply a minor rearrangement of the last. The viewer quickly learns all the tricks you know and what to expect with the next image. Yes, you can use tricks such as flipping the image upside down to view a less simplified image in your own mind, but that's still only a "trick" which can again become tired and worn out once it is over used.

Negative space is also simply another tool though one which has become more well known in recent decades. As described in the groundbreaking instructional book aimed at students of illustration (Dr Betty Edwards: world-renowned art innovator and educator), negative space is the space which surrounds objects. It is the compositional tool most often neglected by those students who are not predominantly visual in their assimilation of data.

It is, though, simply one more tool in your kit when it comes to composition.

Both images you refer to employ negative space, as does virtually any image with a defined boundary of something. Both images even tend to break a cardinal rule of photography which is to not place the horizon at the center of the image. Yet both images also rely on the centered line of the horizon to direct the viewer's eyes in a manner which keeps them moving from location to location to location. The image of the stork is in its simplicity almost a pachinko game of visual clues and directional changes. At the same time, it is a very calming image due to its use of symbols.

The autumn scene relies heavily on color - obviously - which, along with the drama brewing in the sky, evokes universal emotions of change at the same time autumn always says to us it is time to settle in for a calming period of quiet and solitude. The peace and tranquility being suggested by the autumn scene is simply brought to the fore in the night scene with its completely quiet waters (also seen in the autumn image).

Therefore, what is the photography and the photographer suggesting to you through use of symbols? This is yet another lesson in composition. One well worth study.

Both scenes "work" for many viewers due to the near universal symbolism employed in the photography. What does the stork symbolize? Well, to some extent, that specific reference is a cultural one which may suggest very different things to people with different backgrounds. Place it within an image filled with calm waters and now the symbolism is deepened.

Next, take a look at the lines of the image and you'll see a scene in each of your examples which is never at rest as your eye continues to move from location to location within the scene. Now you have a contrast of calm yet busy.

The night scene invites the viewer to look more deeply into the clues being provided. The autumn scene has elements which are at odds with each other and yet come to a conclusion with the play of colors against one another.

Lines within the images hold the viewer's attention by never allowing a resting point when there is more to inspect. As in the lessons from the illustration book, we are defining what we see by way of the lines which we follow. And symbols. And space not filled which can be either restful or angry. The space in your own examples tends to miss on these points. With your images, space tends to be jumbled and meaningless.

Add the manner in which color is used and not used in the night scene and you have high contrast which is always a bit mysterious to the viewer. No doubt, seeing in your mind's eye where and when to add mystery to your images is a key to making your photos more memorable.

Therefore, explaining the hows and whys of these images is of use to you as a learning tool on many levels. I would highly doubt though the photographer had to flip either image upside down to get his shot. These were simply automatic images he could see as he viewed what was before him.

The night image is almost an abstract idea which should (IMO) lead you to question why some people prefer non-representational art. Take that idea and study it for, say, a dozen years and you'll still have only scratched the surface of "composition".


You cannot change your personality type, it is embedded within you and it is how you work and always have worked. If you begin as a tactile personality, you will not over time learn how to be an auditory personality. Nor will you become a visual personality. You can, however, learn the rules and concepts employed by great artists of any generation and place them in your tool kit. Then you will have them at your disposal when you need them. They may be a mechanical function at first but over time these tools will become more familiar just as a carpenter learns the various saws and hammers and fastening techniques at their disposal.



One lesson I would say to take away from either of the examples is the photographer expressed "universal emotion". He did so using rather universal symbols. None of your own examples demonstrate you have given due consideration to either of these tools. As I have suggested in my earlier post, photography is not about "SQUIRREL!"

If you care for these two images, study them for why they are appealing to you as a viewer. What is it you see in them? What do you not see? For one thing, you do not see a photographer who has rushed through the process of creating an image and moved on simply to take more less than inspired photos.

Once you have studied, and feel you have understood these images, take the next step and begin to study the tools of composition itself. Then move to symbolism, then to emotional impact, etc, etc, etc. They all overlap one another. For the visual personality type, these are what they experience constantly, one great image to another great image all falling in line every moment of the day.

For the tactile or the auditory personality, these are simply tools you must learn and then learn how to use.
 
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You'll get better with practice. It looks like you've gotten a lot of advice on composition but that's only 1 aspect of landscapes; the other two big ones are weather and lighting, which go hand-in-hand.

Landscape photography is part photography and part meteorology. Getting a feel for the lighting and weather takes tons of practice. It may help to learn more about sun position and weather forecasts, from cloud coverage to fronts, pressure, and dew point. Of course, remember that weather forecasts are often wrong but they're a great starting point.

To start, pick a place close to you that has the best potential for landscapes. If you don't live in the mountains or hills, try a park, forest, lake, river, skyline, plains, etc. Then explore during the day (bad lighting) to find shots you want to get of certain subjects. Then, to make them interesting, you must go back repeatedly to experience different lighting conditions. Unlike studio photography, you can't control the lighting and in my experience the weather is usually pretty mean to landscape photographers. Just like with bird photography, the only way to get the cool shots is either luck or persistence (and a LOT of it); also, you should accept the many times you will come home with nothing because the weather didn't cooperate.

Golden hour is best and morning is better than evening (more interesting things tend to happen) but evening can be awesome, too. Back/side lighting can both be great; front lighting is truly awful, even during golden hour, unless under unique weather conditions (clouds, storms, etc.). Overcast skies are generally boring except in certain situations, such as waterfalls.

Post-processing can be exceptionally difficult for some types of landscapes. Exposure bracketing at least a little is a good idea, as is liberal use of filters and masks in Lightroom/Photoshop.
 
working the night shift i do not get much of the golden hour. most of the time golden hour has passed or is currently going on right about when i get off of work, or i am sleeping during the golden hours. for the most part i get some shooting in on my days off work.

i really appreciate everyone's help, it has definitely made me think about things and realize a few things too. now next time i go out and try to apply this hopefully it will all come into play for a better image, but that may be easier said than done. ill probably try to get a few landscape shots on saturday and see how it goes.

i really do appreciate all the help.
 
This.
If you are using a wide lense, you have to avoid the empty fore/middle ground like plague. Construct you composition so that there is always a focal point of interest on the foreground and lines, leading to middle ground and further to the main landscape. Wide lense makes your image 3-dimentional, because it exaggerates the depth, and ignoring this dimension is the most widespread mistake committed by wide lenses users. You can not underestimate that. As an extreme example:
View attachment 110996

I don't want to steal Danny's thread here, but I think this pumpkin patch picture is a great example of how to really frame up an interesting landscape - to me, you've hugely created a subject with the composition here. Where I feel like I, and most, would walk up and see a pumpkin batch and beautiful scenery, snap it and move on, I think your angle and focus on the pumpkin up front, the view, really giving an interesting foreground puts much more story to the photo.

In other words - this taught me what I need to look for when I want to make an interesting landscape shot. Maybe not every time, but something more interesting to look at.
 
walked around the neighborhood to see if i could find any landscape type things to shoot. this was about the only one that did not totally suck. still not anything anyone would want to hang on their wall though.

how the competition, just pretend the mail boxes are not there, i am sure someone will complain about those but this is just about getting a good competition i guess.
20151104-DSC_2898.webp
 

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