In line for lunch -

[The_Traveler]

In Myanmar, Buddhist males are supposed to spend at least two three month periods in a monastery, the first when they are young and the second when they have finished their working life and have settled their responsibilities to their families.

Although monks are usually supposed to depend on the kindness of others to provide food for them and thus seeing monks going out with their bowls to beg for food is a common sight in early morning (see second picture below), that isn't plausible near this quite large monastery which is in a semi-rural area so the monks are fed by the monastery twice a day in a large eating area.

Providing food for monks is a way of 'gaining merit'; an interesting excerpt explaining the concept of 'merit' from The Berzin Archives is quoted below the picture

The word “merit” in English is completely the wrong word. This word seems to imply that you score points for doing good things, and if you get enough points – let’s say 100 points – then you win a medal. This is a childish idea, something like the scouts’ “merit badge,” and is certainly not what we mean by merit in Buddhism. The German word Verdienst is actually much more interesting and not as childish. I think we need to focus on this meaning, rather than on the English word.


I prefer to translate the concept from Sanskrit or Tibetan as “positive potentials” or “positive force,” because this is something that arises as a result of acting constructively and which then ripens into happiness. Of course, we will look into the meaning of this a little more deeply, because there are three terms here that are quite technical and specific. What do we mean by “acting constructively?” What do we mean by “happiness?” What is this process of “ripening?” What is the relationship between acting constructively and being happy? For example, I might try to do some nice things, but I might not be very happy as a result, so what is going on here?


First, I think we need to examine the idea of Verdienst. What does verdienen mean? Does verdienen mean happiness? Or does it mean to earn happiness, or to deserve happiness? “To earn” means that you work at a job and then you are paid, so you have earned something. Similarly, we work at being good and then we earn our happiness. Is that what this is about? Or does it mean that we deserve happiness? “I have a right to be happy. I paid my money and now I have the right to get a good product. If I don’t get that good product, I’ve been cheated.” All these ideas get mixed up with the German word verdienen. Actually, as I said earlier, it is not as childish as the idea of merit in the sense of getting points and winning a contest, because in fact these are really very serious matters.

If this quote piques your interest, you might read the rest of the discussion on merit and 'positive potential' at The Buddhist Concept of Merit: Does Happiness Need To Be Earned?

This is sort of similar to the Hebrew concept of the 'mizvah' to give charity; give, not because doing so ill earn you anything, but because it is fulfilling G-d's Wish. He made the world and left it to humans to fill it with meaning and spirituality.

 

[Rags]

While these practices can bring fulfillment, it's extremely challenging to use them when one is in a competitive earning environment in their most productive years.

From the Buddhists and Hindus I have observed, there doesn't appear to be a social competitive environment to feed their families.

To apply these to an American from a modest background would be harmful to his earning capacity if he choose to rise above his current condition

(Hindus on the other hand; have institutional discrimination (caste) that prevents upward mobility)

These are nice ideas to think about intellectually, but may be harmful to one's social health

Rags

 

[The_Traveler]

While these practices can bring fulfillment, it's extremely challenging to use them when one is in a competitive earning environment in their most productive years.

From the Buddhists and Hindus I have observed, there doesn't appear to be a social competitive environment to feed their families.

To apply these to an American from a modest background would be harmful to his earning capacity if he choose to rise above his current condition

(Hindus on the other hand; have institutional discrimination (caste) that prevents upward mobility)

These are nice ideas to think about intellectually, but may be harmful to one's social health

Rags

You got that from the picture?

 

[Granddad]

While these practices can bring fulfillment, it's extremely challenging to use them when one is in a competitive earning environment in their most productive years.

From the Buddhists and Hindus I have observed, there doesn't appear to be a social competitive environment to feed their families.

To apply these to an American from a modest background would be harmful to his earning capacity if he choose to rise above his current condition

(Hindus on the other hand; have institutional discrimination (caste) that prevents upward mobility)

These are nice ideas to think about intellectually, but may be harmful to one's social health

Rags

You got that from the picture?

I think you've missed the point, Rags. The terms ...competitive earning environment, ... social competitive environment to feed their families ....upward mobility .... social health (if I'm interpreting you correctly, forgive me if I'm wrong) all come from a different mindset. I'm not up to snuff on Buddhism but many of the deeper concepts are common to most of the world's major spiritual paths. The point most of them make being that upward social and financial mobility is irrelevant. One can become rich and powerful and be miserable as sin but a person who is poor in the eyes of the world can find satisfaction, contentment and happiness in doing good for others. Enough to eat for the family is fine goal, but does that have to mean that one works all hours and climbs over the backs of others in order to make enough to feed one's family with caviar and truffles? If one gets to the end of the line (having changed family groups several times along the way) with more toys than everyone else, has one really won?

I like the concept I see in these photos. While we in the west will throw a coin into a homeless person's hat and walk on by; sharing food with a beggar (or a mendicant priest) is a little closer to home. You share what you have ... and have the bonus of knowing that the recipient isn't going to head around the corner to the liquor store and use your "gift" to buy a bottle of cheap booze.

And for the monks (who go on to normal life) it should teach humility and a greater understanding of people, if the system works as it is meant to.

Sermon for the day over.
Merry Christmas.

 

[Rags]

While these practices can bring fulfillment, it's extremely challenging to use them when one is in a competitive earning environment in their most productive years.

From the Buddhists and Hindus I have observed, there doesn't appear to be a social competitive environment to feed their families.

To apply these to an American from a modest background would be harmful to his earning capacity if he choose to rise above his current condition

(Hindus on the other hand; have institutional discrimination (caste) that prevents upward mobility)

These are nice ideas to think about intellectually, but may be harmful to one's social health

Rags

You got that from the picture?

Hehehe.... Nope... from your commentary & quote...

If I got that from the picture, you would indeed have a fantasmagorical image .... :mrgreen:

Rags

BTW Granddad.. Bill Gates has won... just sayin'... :greenpbl:

 

[The_Traveler]

. Bill Gates has won... just sayin'... :greenpbl:

Bill Gates may indeed have a lot of money but succeeding in any material way is totally unrelated to the central issues of Buddhism.

My goal is to work at making the Third Noble Truth work for me.
The 'ignore' option here has something to do with that.
I don't think that I will ever achieve the Fourth Noble Truth but actually working at it is good enough for now.

 

[amolitor]

Wow, if you think giving up three months of your life is going to substantially harm your earning potential, you got some mighty strange ideas.

This, quite apart from the socio-political problems which are, basically, rooted in America's obsession with "earning potential" and the like.

 

[amolitor]

As for the pictures, they are sadly more or less meaningless without the commentary. That is, they're good pictures, upon which one can write a narrative. Without the cultural cues, though, we westerners are helpless to assign any useful meaning to them. We will inevitably view them through the lens of our own culture, and get it all wrong.

I like the second one, specifically. The juxtaposition of the western clothing, complete with branding, and the monk, is pretty potent. No way would I have guessed the actual meaning, although it's clear that *something* is going on here.

 

[sashbar]

I think the first image is quite strong and able to defend itself without any supporting narrative. I like the flow, the composition, the colour scheme, the details, especially the row of cups, bare feet and colourful towels in the upper part of the frame. I think the image says enough about these kids. I like the line of sight that goes clockwise from the main boy to the one on the forefront and then to the upper row. The main subject is well separated thanks to his pose, even though the sun sadly misses him. The face in the far upper right corner is a bit of a distraction to me, but cutting him off would break the balance. I think it is a good, strong image. I think there is always a trap with these 'exotic' settings, where the unusual content can easily mask a photographically week image. But here I think the image stands on its own.

I am not very enthusiastic about the second one, that has a highly distractive background with those horizontal lines behind their hands and the clash of colours being especially unfortunate. It cries for a shallow DoF or some more appealing street context. The juxtaposition of dress styles did not struck me at all, before amolitor mentioned it. But even now, we are so used to cultural diversity on a street, that it does not really work on its own in my view.

I usually judge an image on its aesthetic values regardless of its cultural or moral context. A poor photo of Mother Teresa is still a poor photo. So inevitably I ask myself - would this image be interesting if it was not an exotic setting, if it had no unusual cultural context attached? Would this image be interesting for a local guy who appreciates good photography but sees these robes and monks etc every day? It the answer is yes, then the image is good. So from that point of view, the first one is good. The second one - in my view, is just an awkwardly framed snapshot.

 

[The_Traveler]

Sorry, I should have been clear that the second photo was for illustration only.
i didn't think of it as an attempt at anything artistic.

 

[sashbar]

Sorry, I should have been clear that the second photo was for illustration only.
i didn't think of it as an attempt at anything artistic.

My bad, I should have guessed that.

 

[The_Traveler]

I think there is always a trap with these 'exotic' settings, where the unusual content can easily mask a photographically week image.

A poor photo of Mother Teresa is still a poor photo. So inevitably I ask myself - would this image be interesting if it was not an exotic setting, if it had no unusual cultural context attached? Would this image be interesting for a local guy who appreciates good photography but sees these robes and monks etc every day? It the answer is yes, then the image is good.

Totally agree

 

[pixmedic]

Sorry, I should have been clear that the second photo was for illustration only.
i didn't think of it as an attempt at anything artistic.

maybe I am completely off base here, so feel to correct me if I am wrong...
once again, I am thrown off by this concept of "every picture has to tell a story".
I think this is only partially correct, because sometimes a picture simply can not portray the enormity and complexity of the situation from which the picture was taken. Even more so when you cross regions and cultures.
personally, I find these picture the complete opposite of "meaningless". While true that a complete understanding of what is going on here is difficult unless you are familiar with the culture and/or region, the fact that looking at these pictures make me want to know the story behind them, and want to know the culture behind them, makes these pictures a success in my book.

Then again, I am not an artist, and know little of artistic particulars. All i can give you here is what i see, and how i feel about it.
the first picture is amazing. even without the caption for it, you can easily tell they are in line for food. Not knowing the specifics on the reasons behind it do little to diminish the effectiveness of this picture. I envision the kid looking around the other one to see how far they are from the food, and how much longer until he can eat.
I find it to be a powerful image, my lack of understanding of the specifics aside.

I like the second image as well, although not as much as the first.
from a technical standpoint, the worst I am seeing is a tight crop on the right, and a floating partial hand on the left.
The background, the lines, the apposing colors....while valid critiques to be sure, but to me, do not come into consideration given the circumstances.
"excuse me guys, do you think you could move over here and change clothes before you give that monk his food? the background you are in front of now is distracting, and the lines are all wrong for a proper photograph..."

I think these pictures are great because they provoke a desire to know what is going on there, not in spite of it, and are not diminished because of a lack of our understanding of it.

nicely done Lew.

 

[The_Traveler]

Here's what may be a better scene of a similar situation.

 

[The_Traveler]

This picture above was a bit enigmatic for me.
I imagine the fans in the left hand are part of the costume of the specific monastery because it wasn't very hot that day at all.
While I was in a t shirt, and it was quite early morning, many of the Myanmar people had sweaters or coats.