In 'Noise' Hell

Saddlebreds4me · Jan 8, 2009

Hi,

Disclaimer: I am a newbie with a new camera and a realize I have lots to learn. In fact, I am attending a two day Nikon school this weekend, which I believe will be a tremendous help.

As some of you know, I shoot mainly horses in motion and at this time of year it's usually in an indoor arena with floursecent and/or tungsten lighting. I do not use a flash (although I could if I wanted to, I just choose not to). I use a Nikkor f/2.8 80-200mm - an amazing lens for low light and fast action. I also use an expodisc to check and recheck my WB in the arena prior to shooting.

I cannot find a consistent setting for my camera and leaving it there. I'm having issues with the Manual Mode and I'm looking forward to someone helping me this weekend. Neither her nor there, I need to make sure shutter speed and ISO settings are all working together to get the least amount of noise as possible. I shoot in L Fine RAW - my camera body is a Nikon D700.

I can't post photos from my laptop (no idea why) but when I get to my desktop I could add a really noisy photo - maybe for some suggestions? I'm frustrated but I know some of that is simply lack of knowledge.

So I guess I am just looking for someone to talk noise with me - if you are out there.

Thanks!

Jaszek · Jan 8, 2009

there are some programs for noise reduction. Do you have lightroom? I know Lightroom has it built in.

Kegger · Jan 8, 2009

You can try using Shutter or aperture mode which would compensate for changing light on the fly.

Also, with the D700, noise shouldn't be that big of an issue. Turn on NR or do it in post if it is that big of issue. What ISO are you using?

Saddlebreds4me · Jan 8, 2009

Jaszek - I do use Lightroom - I just got it recently so I'm just getting used to it. I've seen the manual adjustments you can make for noise, but I didn't realize there is a specific NR setting in lightroom - I will check it out - thank you!

Kegger - I know I really shouldn't be having as much of a noise issue as I am - I think part of it has to do with the environment, the bad lighting and some lack of knowledge on my part. When I shoot outside, my photos look like they've been shot in high definition. My ISO setting in the barn I'm playing with right now to see what works best - normally I keep it at 3200 and go up to 6400. Should I try something different?

Thank you both for your help and insight!

Mgw189 · Jan 8, 2009

Saddlebreds4me said:
Jaszek - I do use Lightroom - I just got it recently so I'm just getting used to it. I've seen the manual adjustments you can make for noise, but I didn't realize there is a specific NR setting in lightroom - I will check it out - thank you!

Kegger - I know I really shouldn't be having as much of a noise issue as I am - I think part of it has to do with the environment, the bad lighting and some lack of knowledge on my part. When I shoot outside, my photos look like they've been shot in high definition. My ISO setting in the barn I'm playing with right now to see what works best - normally I keep it at 3200 and go up to 6400. Should I try something different?

Thank you both for your help and insight!

That is why you are in noise hell right there. That would be my guess anyway lower ISOs will reduce the noise quite a bit. Shoot at the lowest possible ISO in order to get the images you want.

Saddlebreds4me · Jan 8, 2009

Thank you I will try lowering my ISO - I had been told by a professional friend of mine that due to light and the speed at which our horses travel that an ISO setting of 3200 was preferable in the specific arena we were shooting in (we were in Kansas City at the time).

I guess my pea brain translated those settings over to our indoor arena and the light etc...that my settings should have stayed pretty close to what we were shooting in Kansas City. At the time I was shooting with a D70s and my ISO only went up to 1600 -

Sorry I'm now tired and probably talking in circles but thank you for your help, I wil drop it immediately and see how things turn out.

tsaraleksi · Jan 8, 2009

ISO6400 should be ok on the D700 but you've got to make sure that you're nailing your exposures or else you'll have a lot of noise showing up.

Saddlebreds4me · Jan 8, 2009

Thanks tsaraleski - I do need to nail my exposures for sure and once I really know my Manual setting inside and out - I think that would really help. I feel like I'm on the verge of getting some really nice shots but there are a few things that I need to tweak before that happens.

Again, many thanks for the suggestion!

gsgary · Jan 9, 2009

I think the problem might be you are not shooting a high enough ISO because it should be a walk in the park for this camera , i would go to ISO6400 if i had to with this camera because ive seen A4's printed by my friend and they look great. What ISO are you trying to shoot at ? if you under expose and bring it back you will get lots of noise, i shoot with the 1Dmk1 at ISO3200 regularly and what i do is try and over expose at touch this way you get less noise

Saddlebreds4me · Jan 9, 2009

gsgary -

Thanks for the tip - I will try it the next time I am in the barn. I've been really playing with my settings but mostly keeping my ISO at 6400 - I have shot at 3200 but since my old camera was always at 1600 I haven't gone any lower than that (because I didn't feel it was enough).

The other interesting thing that happens in an indoor riding arena with the lighting is that it changes throughout the day and can have really different effects in a single photo shoot. So I am trying to adjust for the changes if I am going to be there for more than 2 hours (which is most of the time).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my instructor this weekend is really good - I have to battle yet another snow storm in New England to get to him/her (about an hour away in good weather) I can't wait...if he/she says anything of note I will come back and repost! Again thank you very much!

Overread · Jan 9, 2009

I do think that aperture or shutter priority (I would say shutter priority since motion capture is the aim of the shooting) would help you a lot for the changing lighting. Noticing the subtle changes in lighting, compensating for that and keeping key elements (ie shutter speed) fast enough are not things that you want to be worrying about whilst you also have to track the horse and rider - frame them and press the shutter.
Also the two modes will compensate you if the horse moves from one type of lighting to another whilst moving - say it runs into light from a window and then back into shade again = manually that is very hard to impossible for you to change for, the camera can do it though.

gsgary · Jan 9, 2009

Saddlebreds4me said:
gsgary -

Thanks for the tip - I will try it the next time I am in the barn. I've been really playing with my settings but mostly keeping my ISO at 6400 - I have shot at 3200 but since my old camera was always at 1600 I haven't gone any lower than that (because I didn't feel it was enough).

The other interesting thing that happens in an indoor riding arena with the lighting is that it changes throughout the day and can have really different effects in a single photo shoot. So I am trying to adjust for the changes if I am going to be there for more than 2 hours (which is most of the time).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my instructor this weekend is really good - I have to battle yet another snow storm in New England to get to him/her (about an hour away in good weather) I can't wait...if he/she says anything of note I will come back and repost! Again thank you very much!

Another problem with horse and riders is depth of field shooting head on at F2.8 won't get rider and horse in DOF side on should be ok

Kegger · Jan 9, 2009

DOF is a risk you have to take shooting lowlight in shutter priority.

One thing I do is put is the camera in S mode, set my shutter speed, and then enable auto ISO.
I can live with noise, but a blurry useless photo is not something I want to see as an end result.

gsgary · Jan 9, 2009

Don't use shutter priority you may set a shutter speed that is not possible with avaliable light, use aperture priority or manual, aperture priority will always give you the fastest shutter speed for given F stop

Judge Sharpe · Jan 9, 2009

With the differing light levels, and I know what you are talking about in riding arenas, you are at a handicap with the digital cameras you are using. You need to be able to set the exposure for each shot manually, but you don't have an easily interpolated meter such as a needle match on the old Minoltas and Nikons. Also with film. especially slide film. you could use a film with a wide exposure latitude, to over come some of the differing exposures. In developing and printing you could also compensate for the noise.
Also shoot as large an image as you can, that way you do not run into as serious resolution issues with the grain or pixies or pixels or what ever the digitals have.
JUDGE SHARPE