Lets talk about AF points!

[JustJazzie]

I'm spoiled I supposed with my NEX7, I just scroll to any where I want my af to lock and it saves it. Then I get to zoom to a 100% crop and fine tune my focus.

Well, I've been looking into the canon d6 and it only has 11 AF points, none of which fall onto the rule of thirds points. Is this a deal breaker for portraiture?

The last time I owned a dslr I would center and recompose, but looking back most all my shots were "near focus" never tack sharp, so I'd like to make sure I get it right this time!

 

[KmH]

Understanding Camera Autofocus

The rule of thirds is just 1 of several composition guidelines. There are others, some of them based on the golden section- Crop Guides | Holy Crop!
Golden ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rule of thirds is just 1 composition guideline. There are other based on the the golden section, golden diagonals, golden spiral.

The 6D is an entry-level, full frame DSLR that competes with Nikon's D610.

Both have entry-level AF modules, but Nikon's upper tier entry-level AF module is quite a bit more sophisticated than what is in the Canon 6D.
Only the center AF point of the 11 in the 6D is a cross-type AF point, while the D610 has 9 cross-type AF pints out of 39 AF points.
However, the distribution of the 39 AF points in the D610 is somewhat narrow.

A couple of other significant differences is that the Nikon D610 has color-aware metering (2016 pixel RGB metering sensor) while the 6D is color-blind (63-zone TTL full aperture metering).
Spot metering mode in the Nikon moves to the selected AF point. In the 6D Spot metering is locked to the center AF point and can't be moved.

 

[vipgraphx]

I can't speak for canon but I think with nikons you can use manual focus on select where you want your focus point.

I think you may like this video

 

[Dao]

My camera has more focus points, but most of the time I just do focus and recompose except in certain situations I believe it is better to select a particular point. Understand Depth of Field will help. There are times that you know the DoF is a feet or two so you have more room to work on. Of course I like to have a camera which has more focus points (why not?), but that is not a deal breaker for me.

 

[JustJazzie]

Understanding Camera Autofocus The rule of thirds is just 1 of several composition guidelines. There are others, some of them based on the golden section- Crop Guides | Holy Crop! Golden ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Rule of thirds is just 1 composition guideline. There are other based on the the golden section, golden diagonals, golden spiral. The 6D is an entry-level, full frame DSLR that competes with Nikon's D610. Both have entry-level AF modules, but Nikon's upper tier entry-level AF module is quite a bit more sophisticated than what is in the Canon 6D. Only the center AF point of the 11 in the 6D is a cross-type AF point, while the D610 has 9 cross-type AF pints out of 39 AF points. However, the distribution of the 39 AF points in the D610 is somewhat narrow. A couple of other significant differences is that the Nikon D610 has color-aware metering (2016 pixel RGB metering sensor) while the 6D is color-blind (63-zone TTL full aperture metering). Spot metering mode in the Nikon moves to the selected AF point. In the 6D Spot metering is locked to the center AF point and can't be moved.

I know it is just one rule, but it it the one I use most often so it's kind of important to me.

That is interesting about spot metering on the Nikon! I'm mostly going to be manually metering when I use it though, as my nex will continue to be my daily camera and the FF my "serious" camera.....

 

[lambertpix]

Just glancing at the AF point arrangement of the 6D, the 11 points look like they're arranged pretty similarly to the 9 points I had in my 40D. I'd expect it to be fairly usable, though it seems pretty meager compared to the AF points found on competing Nikons.

When I upgraded from the 40D to the 7D, one of the things I was looking forward to was the improved AF performance of the 7D, but this interested me mainly for tracking moving subjects. The extra points and modes, like AF point expansion and whatever they call the zone mode are helpful when I can't really put a single point where I want it and hold it there.

The 11 points on the 6D, even if they're not actually on a 1/3 line, wind up being fairly close, I think, and I always found that diamond arrangement pretty intuitive. By comparison, Nikon's D600 / D610 adds a ton of extra points, but they're very tightly clustered, so I'm not sure all the extra points would make a huge difference in portraiture (not like action or wildlife, where they'd be a big help). I think it's pretty fair to say the Nikon D610 AF beats the 6D, but I think the real question for you is whether it beats it in ways that matter to you.

 

[JustJazzie]

Just glancing at the AF point arrangement of the 6D, the 11 points look like they're arranged pretty similarly to the 9 points I had in my 40D. I'd expect it to be fairly usable, though it seems pretty meager compared to the AF points found on competing Nikons. When I upgraded from the 40D to the 7D, one of the things I was looking forward to was the improved AF performance of the 7D, but this interested me mainly for tracking moving subjects. The extra points and modes, like AF point expansion and whatever they call the zone mode are helpful when I can't really put a single point where I want it and hold it there. The 11 points on the 6D, even if they're not actually on a 1/3 line, wind up being fairly close, I think, and I always found that diamond arrangement pretty intuitive. By comparison, Nikon's D600 / D610 adds a ton of extra points, but they're very tightly clustered, so I'm not sure all the extra points would make a huge difference in portraiture (not like action or wildlife, where they'd be a big help). I think it's pretty fair to say the Nikon D610 AF beats the 6D, but I think the real question for you is whether it beats it in ways that matter to you.

Everything I have researched disagrees with the nikon beating canon. The nikon has a huge problem with sensor spots, and does not fare as well in low light situations which are huge factors in my decision. :-( honestly I wanted to go with nikon this to around, but research keep pointing me to the canons.

 

[vipgraphx]

Jazzie- I have been testing the D610 and it does not have problems finding focus in the dark. I did same test just right now as I did yesterday with A7 and no problems.
Sensor spots where in the D600 but, nothing reported yet on the D610.

There is so much stuff out there its hard to tell what is right and what is wrong but I can assure you that the D610 will work great in low light.

 

[Josh66]

Just think about this - for a long time, cameras didn't have ANY AF points, and truly great photos were still taken. Just saying...


Pretty soon, you won't even be able to see the subject through all the AF points...

 

[vipgraphx]

Here is a video of it in view finder and live view.

D610

ISO 100
F4
160

 

[KmH]

The sensor oil issue Nikon had was blown way out of proportion by the internet and inexperienced people who could not tell an oil spot from a dust bunny.

Nikon's low light ISO performance blows current Canon cameras out of the water.

Canon isn't immune. Some years back Canon was shipping $5000 pro grade cameras that had a bad AF system.

 

[Derrel]

Everything I have researched disagrees with the nikon beating canon. The nikon has a huge problem with sensor spots, and does not fare as well in low light situations which are huge factors in my decision. :-( honestly I wanted to go with nikon this to around, but research keep pointing me to the canons.

Wow...you might need to find some less Canon fanboy 'research'. There's a good deal of dubious stuff on the web and YouTube, based on for example, straight out of camera JPEGs, and even VIDEO images of a single candle as "proof" of how awesome the 6D is in low light. Look at dynamic range at Base ISO; look at color depth at the bottom three ISO places; look at resolution...Canon's pretty much the laggard...they are the Toyota Camry of cameras--best-selling, tremendous hype machine, and some good stats like the 50,85 1.2-L lenses which the MWACs love to lust over.

Just in terms of sensor performance, Canon cannot even crack the Top 20 at DxO Mark. But they DO make one HELL of a photocopier at Canon!

Look at the NEX experience you're having right now, and contrast what the fanboys say about the NEX system and how totally "awesome" it performs, as sort of a guide to the reliability of some peoples' opinions.

 

[robbins.photo]

Just glancing at the AF point arrangement of the 6D, the 11 points look like they're arranged pretty similarly to the 9 points I had in my 40D. I'd expect it to be fairly usable, though it seems pretty meager compared to the AF points found on competing Nikons. When I upgraded from the 40D to the 7D, one of the things I was looking forward to was the improved AF performance of the 7D, but this interested me mainly for tracking moving subjects. The extra points and modes, like AF point expansion and whatever they call the zone mode are helpful when I can't really put a single point where I want it and hold it there. The 11 points on the 6D, even if they're not actually on a 1/3 line, wind up being fairly close, I think, and I always found that diamond arrangement pretty intuitive. By comparison, Nikon's D600 / D610 adds a ton of extra points, but they're very tightly clustered, so I'm not sure all the extra points would make a huge difference in portraiture (not like action or wildlife, where they'd be a big help). I think it's pretty fair to say the Nikon D610 AF beats the 6D, but I think the real question for you is whether it beats it in ways that matter to you.

Everything I have researched disagrees with the nikon beating canon. The nikon has a huge problem with sensor spots, and does not fare as well in low light situations which are huge factors in my decision. :-( honestly I wanted to go with nikon this to around, but research keep pointing me to the canons.

Well JJ not sure where you got this information but I'm afraid it's not correct. The only model of Nikon that had any issues with oil spots on the sensor was the D600 - which is why the D610 was released, to address that issue and fix a couple of other minor issues as I recall. Even though a few D600's had the oil spot issue they were actually pretty few and far between, it was massively overhyped on the internet but the truth is the number of D600's that were actually returned and fixed for free by Nikon for the problem was pretty small as a percentage of the number of D600's sold.

As to lowlight performance, Well I'm sure I'll tick off a few of the Canon faithful here but Nikon stomps Canon into the dust - particularly in the category of low noise at high ISO. My old Nikon D5100 has better high iso/low noise performance than a brand new Canon 70d. Don't get me wrong here, Canon makes some good cameras, but in the area of lowlight performance they really don't match up against Nikon, not even close.

So I'm not sure where your doing your research but it doesn't sound to me like your getting your information from unbiased sources.

 

[lambertpix]

As to lowlight performance, Well I'm sure I'll tick off a few of the Canon faithful here but Nikon stomps Canon into the dust - particularly in the category of low noise at high ISO. My old Nikon D5100 has better high iso/low noise performance than a brand new Canon 70d. Don't get me wrong here, Canon makes some good cameras, but in the area of lowlight performance they really don't match up against Nikon, not even close.

Ok, so aside from the fact that we've skidded off AF points into a discussion of low-light performance, I'm trying to follow your argument. First, you know that we're talking about the 6D here, which is a full-frame sensor -- not the cropped sensor in the 70D, right? Despite that, I see DxO scores the 6D poorly for "Low-Light ISO", but when I look at samples on DPreview, the 6D looks pretty good next to the D600 (the 6D review didn't show samples for the D610).

Is there another good place to look at samples side-by-side? As much as I love DxO's database, it's hard to argue with what I'm seeing in images produced by the cameras.

 

[robbins.photo]

As to lowlight performance, Well I'm sure I'll tick off a few of the Canon faithful here but Nikon stomps Canon into the dust - particularly in the category of low noise at high ISO. My old Nikon D5100 has better high iso/low noise performance than a brand new Canon 70d. Don't get me wrong here, Canon makes some good cameras, but in the area of lowlight performance they really don't match up against Nikon, not even close.

Ok, so aside from the fact that we've skidded off AF points into a discussion of low-light performance, I'm trying to follow your argument. First, you know that we're talking about the 6D here, which is a full-frame sensor -- not the cropped sensor in the 70D, right? Despite that, I see DxO scores the 6D poorly for "Low-Light ISO", but when I look at samples on DPreview, the 6D looks pretty good next to the D600 (the 6D review didn't show samples for the D610).

Is there another good place to look at samples side-by-side? As much as I love DxO's database, it's hard to argue with what I'm seeing in images produced by the cameras.

Ok, well the contention was that Canon is better than Nikon for low light performance - that was what I was responding too specifically. It simply is not true. Had they said Canon has better video, I would have agreed wholeheartedly. I compared my D5100 to the 70d for two reasons, first my d5100 is pretty outdated, the 70d is pretty much top of the line latest and greatest for Canon's crop sensors. Even so the lowlight performance is better on my D5100. That's a pretty impressive difference when you think about it, because the lowlight performance on my D5100 can't match that of Nikon's D7100 - the camera that I recommended to the OP in another related thread.

If you wanted to compare the 6d to the d600, the D600 again has better high iso/low noise performance - the point was simply that the contention that Canon is better in low light performance is simply untrue, and that the information she had gathered when doing her research wasn't correct. As far as images produced by the camera, there are a lot of variables there that need to be taken into account before that would be considered a valid test, but really the main point I was trying to address was that her initial research was rather flawed.

In the end it really doesn't matter to me which camera she chooses, I don't own stock in either company. My only concern here is that she make those decisions with full and accurate information at her disposal, nothing more. If ultimately she decides to go with a full frame Canon over the crop sensor Nikon I recommended (based mostly on information she posted in the other thread), hey as long as she's happy I'm happy for her. But I would rather she base her decision on good information, rather than misinformation. That's pretty much the only reason for my post. It's not a "Nikon is better than Canon" sort of post, but you can't argue the fact that when you compare Nikon's vrs Canon's in the area of low light performance the Nikon will nearly always win that comparison when you compare bodies in the same price range.

Now if you want to talk FPS or video capabilities, then normally the opposite is true - but the point here is to give the OP correct and accurate information on which she can base her decision. Not to start another one of those endless Nikon V Canon arguments.