Long Neck women - and other oppressive cultural traditions

Many off-topic threads are not about photos at all.
Political commentary has been understand to mean about politics - and this thread has no political orientation. We are talking about society and its rules.
In that context almost any discussion that isn't directly about a specific photo can be deemed as political.
Virtually any photo that illuminates a societal context or question different from what we are used to could be deemed 'political.'


red arrows are topics not directly about specific photos.

off topic.jpg
 
so Lew, which of your posts or threads have I deleted that you are having a problem with?
 
I am going to take this opportunity to remind everyone that while you don't have to agree with a moderator's point of view, you are required to abide by his/her direction, whether you agree with it or not. If you feel so strongly that a moderator as "wronged" you, feel free to take your complaint up the chain, to the 'site administrators. In the meantime however, lacking direction from them to the contrary, what the moderators say goes!
 
.. consider the issue of cultural habits...
Considering your considerable concern, and the considerable effort you have made in soliciting our consideration, I considered your premise, therefore you may consider it considered.
 
Many off-topic threads are not about photos at all.
Political commentary has been understand to mean about politics - and this thread has no political orientation. We are talking about society and its rules.
In that context almost any discussion that isn't directly about a specific photo can be deemed as political.
Virtually any photo that illuminates a societal context or question different from what we are used to could be deemed 'political.'


red arrows are topics not directly about specific photos.

View attachment 97043

Off Topic is not the issue here.
the issue is a situation where the conversation has far drifted from the image you posted into a discussion on right and wrong with society behaviors.
while you may not consider it directly political, it certainly is a topic that can easily go awry. fast.
It is not much different than any other number of "hot button" topics that often cause issues.
 
And yet, Jason, almost every photograph taken of humans IS political because it reflects the viewpoint of the image maker, and if it is successful at eliciting emotion, does it because it touches the hot buttons that are largely there because of our culture(s).
That may in fact be true, but whatever feelings an image invokes, the discussion on the image has to stay within the context of the image from a photographic standpoint, not a socio-political one.

Well, OK. But then, we are essentially limited to discussing the illustrative aspects of images, and the "meaning" or interpretation becomes off-limit. And yet, once one gets the basic techniques of photography learned, the larger issue of making one's photography "relevant" or perhaps "talking to a wider audience" requires us to touch upon the things that get people excited, in both good and bad ways. We've talked on this forum about getting beyond just "pretty" pictures, and that means venturing into territory that has emotional impact. And emotional impact is sensitive and troubling and disturbing and depending on the viewer, can cause all kinds of reactions. Are we to shy away from these because we can offend someone? I would argue that by having the discussions of differing and even opposing viewpoints, but in a respectful manner, we all can learn about the things that we as photographers could, and perhaps should be thinking about.

If the forum is actively moderated, as this one is, the dangers of having insulting and/or inflammatory posts is diminished, and the frank discussion can actually be appealing to more advanced users who are usually the ones creating interesting content. I've been on some forums where it's all roses and compliments, and there is not much learning going on in that kind of environment. And of course we probably all know of forums where some obnoxious jerks make sure that everyone knows that "their" opinions are the only ones that matter and everyone else is mentally-challenged or worse. THIS forum is attractive to me as it has a pretty good mix of intelligent people of various political persuasions, and the discussions, whether they be about photography or not, are usually stimulating and interesting. If we behave in an adult and responsible manner, surely this does not go against the objectives of the ownership of this forum. Or does it?
 
And yet, Jason, almost every photograph taken of humans IS political because it reflects the viewpoint of the image maker, and if it is successful at eliciting emotion, does it because it touches the hot buttons that are largely there because of our culture(s).
That may in fact be true, but whatever feelings an image invokes, the discussion on the image has to stay within the context of the image from a photographic standpoint, not a socio-political one.

Well, OK. But then, we are essentially limited to discussing the illustrative aspects of images, and the "meaning" or interpretation becomes off-limit. And yet, once one gets the basic techniques of photography learned, the larger issue of making one's photography "relevant" or perhaps "talking to a wider audience" requires us to touch upon the things that get people excited, in both good and bad ways. We've talked on this forum about getting beyond just "pretty" pictures, and that means venturing into territory that has emotional impact. And emotional impact is sensitive and troubling and disturbing and depending on the viewer, can cause all kinds of reactions. Are we to shy away from these because we can offend someone? I would argue that by having the discussions of differing and even opposing viewpoints, but in a respectful manner, we all can learn about the things that we as photographers could, and perhaps should be thinking about.

If the forum is actively moderated, as this one is, the dangers of having insulting and/or inflammatory posts is diminished, and the frank discussion can actually be appealing to more advanced users who are usually the ones creating interesting content. I've been on some forums where it's all roses and compliments, and there is not much learning going on in that kind of environment. And of course we probably all know of forums where some obnoxious jerks make sure that everyone knows that "their" opinions are the only ones that matter and everyone else is mentally-challenged or worse. THIS forum is attractive to me as it has a pretty good mix of intelligent people of various political persuasions, and the discussions, whether they be about photography or not, are usually stimulating and interesting. If we behave in an adult and responsible manner, surely this does not go against the objectives of the ownership of this forum. Or does it?



I agree with you in concept.
but heres my problem. bear with me for a minute.
Ive already had to delete one post that got reported by several people.
a few other posts were reported as well, but i felt they were juuuust inside the grey area that i decided to just let it slide. All i asked was that comments drift back towards the picture and not any further down a slippery slope that could easily get the thread locked. The discussion had gotten far away from anything photography related, and discussions on sociopolitical issues don't really benefit a photography forum. Thats better suited for a political forum.
instead of locking the thread, or just sending the thread to the spam trashcan, I simply asked that things simmer down a bit. which obviously was a mistake.
when posts get reported, mods have to look at the thread and we are forced to make a decision on what the chances are of things going downhill.
 
The problem with political forums is that I can't discuss photography there - the level of ignorance of visual media is quite astonishing. As for posts getting reported... That does sound like something that Big Brother (and his imitators) would love. That said, I don't much envy you or John or the other moderators - staying on top of the occasional infantile posturing and finger-pointing can be a royal pain in the behind, but I'm hoping that fear of controversy doesn't end up killing this forum because no-one wants to be "reported". Look. I know this forum is a private area, and you moderators and administrators are responsible to the owners of the site in terms of what is allowed and what isn't. But I also believe that the viewer content (which all forums try to encourage) will improve if the caliber of people who are interested in participating improves as well. So walking a careful and fine line is your challenge.

Back to photography. If we are only to talk that then Lew will get something like this: "Lew - your DOF appears adequate to capture the subject, and the white balance is appropriate. Can't comment on the shutter speed or ISO. There are no blown highlights as far as I can see." ;)
 
Well, the thread is still here. I haven't deleted it. Or any other posts. So....
Seeing as how the only discussion now is on what the definition of "is" is, does this mean the thread has run its course?
 
It may have. But that's up to Lew and others to decide if they want to add to it or to let it sink quietly into oblivion (that is, until some bot or newbie brings it out of hibernation 5-10 years from now...).
 
The discussion had gotten far away from anything photography related, and discussions on sociopolitical issues don't really benefit a photography forum. Thats better suited for a political forum.

I don't think it drifted that far.
Much of the photography of real life is spurred by seeing things that are 'different' enough to the photographer that he/she wants to preserve his/her viewpoint.
We live in a world of mixed cultures and our society only gets along because enough of the differences between cultures are neither obvious not detrimental to the overall good.

One of the good reasons for travel is that the traveler gets exposed to large cultural differences and gets used to understanding how differences can co-exist and, perhaps, gets better at accomodating some differences and deciding where he/she stands on others.

Thai and Lao people sometimes eat insects.
Pretty shocking.
I tried some crunchy ones and they actually tasted pretty good, so my accommodation to cultural differences took a boost.
Getting used to thinking about what one actually thinks makes for a better, more insightful person.

Here's a cultural differences that is affecting the US.
Korean and Japanese children, along with many other Asians, are raised to work and study really, really hard - and hew to the family requirements.
This makes for great students.
In the US, where there are large Asian immigrant populations, these children have effectively taken over the high achieving roles.

It is interesting to read about the troubles of the Hmong people in California (Hmong American - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia where their culture imposed requirements and restrictions that were difficult to meet in the US culture.

None of this is political or governmental; no one who posted here was 'arguing' (except for one rant that I reported and a couple of marginal comments by staff members). There was intellectual, thoughtful comments that didn't go over any line.

Making threats about behavior here, in what was a self-policed thread, is like warning people about jay-walking because they are walking along a narrow sidewalk.
 
Well, it obviously hadn't drifted "that" far or i would have had to delete more posts
 

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