Looking for a 360 degree timelapse panorama motion device

[PulsarBG]

Hello Ladies and Gents,
Could someone suggest a good 360 time lapse (electronic or not) tripod head that preferably not super expensive and supports very slow rotation speeds in the order of 3-4 or more hours per cycle? For example I'd like to be able to do a 45 degree continuous rotation for 5 hours. Also if there is one with stops for long shutter exposure that would be interesting as well since I might want to use it for astrophotography down the road. Thanks in advance

 

[TCampbell]

I'm not sure what you mean by "one with stops for long shutter exposure" for astrophotography. For astrophotography the head has to keep moving -- specifically at something called "sidereal" speed. That means it does a completely rotation in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4 seconds. That's the true speed at which the Earth rotates on it's axis (not 24 hours). The Earth advances about 1º in it's orbit around the sun per day. So while the Earth has rotated 360º in slightly less than a day, the Sun will appear to have moved (due to the Earth's orbit around the Sun) and that's where it takes nearly 4 more minutes of Earth rotating before the Sun returns to the same point in the sky (e.g. local noon one day until local noon the following day.)

There are numerous video panning heads but I'm not aware of any that can rotate continuously (most control tilt as well as pan and that means they have to run wires to the tilt-axis and that creates an internal wire-wraps problem -- so products like the Bescor MP-360 give you a 360º rotation... just not continuously (CamRanger sells the MP-360 head so that it can be remotely controlled via a smart-device such as an Apple or Google phone or tablet. And then of course you have to own the CamRanger itself and still buy the MP-360 so the price adds up.) These tracking heads do not have speeds appropriate for astrophotography.

Though I do most of my astro-imaging with a telescope and a Losmandy G11 mount, I *just* acquired a Losmandy StarLapse system -- which is intended to mount on photo tripods and hold cameras rather than telescopes.

See: Losmandy StarLapse System

I haven't done any "real" work with it yet other than just some quick tests to make sure it's working. I'm planning to use it extensively on an upcoming trip to Hawaii which has CONSIDERABLY better dark-skies and steadier atmosphere conditions than I can normally get. Bringing my imaging telescope and mount would be impractical (and I'd be terrified that the airline baggage handlers would damage it.) So the StarLapse system (which would fit in a carry-on case) is ideal.

There are a number of tracking and panning heads. For astrophotography there's the Vixen Polarie, the iOptron SkyTracker, and the AstroTrac (in addition to the Losmandy StarLapse that I mentioned already). But the Vixen and iOptron products have very limited tacking rates and can't track at a rotation speed of 360º in 3-4 hours like you mentioned above and the AstroTrac is basically a modern "barn door" tracker so it can't even do a 360º rotation. I think this means you'd have to scratch all of these other heads off your list.

It actually can rotate continuously (it's not limited to 360º) and it has 9 selectable tracking rates, which include:
1) Sidereal speed (23 hrs 56 mins 4 seconds to complete a 360º circle. This is actually the speed that the Earth turns and that's why it has to be the speed to track the stars for long exposure astrophotography)
2) Solar speed (24 hours to complete a 360º circle.)
3-9) 7.5, 20, 30, 40, 60, 120, and 240 degrees per hour. For example, picking the 120º/hr rate would mean that it would complete a 360º rotation in 3 hours. (BTW, it does not stop until you turn it off and once you set the tracking rate and start it, it locks out changes until you turn it off. This prevents someone from bumping a control, changing it's tracking speed, and thus destroying hours worth of careful work because you don't find out that the tracking rate got changed until you review your images later.)

Based on this, it *might* be the only product that does everything you want.

Another nice thing about the Losmandy is that it's designed to keep the camera neutrally balanced while in operation. If a camera isn't balanced then it would put either more load or less load on the motor as it rotates (depending on whether it's lifting the weight of a lens or if the lens is on it's way back down to the opposite horizon.) On the Losmandy system, the camera mount slides along a bar (actually there are a few adjustments) so that the thing is mounted so that it's center of gravity is position at the rotation axis. That means the load on the motor won't change over the hours and the tracking rate will remain consistent (it's a very well thought-out and engineered piece of gear.)

To do astro-imaging you still need a tripod head that can let you adjust the tilt angle (a video head works better than a photo / ball-head) so that the rotation axis of the StarLapse points to the north celestial pole (the pole-star ... Polaris in the northern hemisphere ... is about 2/3º away from the pole but usually close enough for wide-field images. For longer focal length lenses they do sell an optional polar-alignment scope that installs in the center of the unit and it has an illuminated etched reticle alignment aids that helps you do much more precise polar alignment.)

 

[jsecordphoto]

I'm not sure what you mean by "one with stops for long shutter exposure" for astrophotography. For astrophotography the head has to keep moving -- specifically at something called "sidereal" speed. That means it does a completely rotation in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4 seconds. That's the true speed at which the Earth rotates on it's axis (not 24 hours). The Earth advances about 1º in it's orbit around the sun per day. So while the Earth has rotated 360º in slightly less than a day, the Sun will appear to have moved (due to the Earth's orbit around the Sun) and that's where it takes nearly 4 more minutes of Earth rotating before the Sun returns to the same point in the sky (e.g. local noon one day until local noon the following day.)

There are numerous video panning heads but I'm not aware of any that can rotate continuously (most control tilt as well as pan and that means they have to run wires to the tilt-axis and that creates an internal wire-wraps problem -- so products like the Bescor MP-360 give you a 360º rotation... just not continuously (CamRanger sells the MP-360 head so that it can be remotely controlled via a smart-device such as an Apple or Google phone or tablet. And then of course you have to own the CamRanger itself and still buy the MP-360 so the price adds up.) These tracking heads do not have speeds appropriate for astrophotography.

Though I do most of my astro-imaging with a telescope and a Losmandy G11 mount, I *just* acquired a Losmandy StarLapse system -- which is intended to mount on photo tripods and hold cameras rather than telescopes.

See: Losmandy StarLapse System

I haven't done any "real" work with it yet other than just some quick tests to make sure it's working. I'm planning to use it extensively on an upcoming trip to Hawaii which has CONSIDERABLY better dark-skies and steadier atmosphere conditions than I can normally get. Bringing my imaging telescope and mount would be impractical (and I'd be terrified that the airline baggage handlers would damage it.) So the StarLapse system (which would fit in a carry-on case) is ideal.

There are a number of tracking and panning heads. For astrophotography there's the Vixen Polarie, the iOptron SkyTracker, and the AstroTrac (in addition to the Losmandy StarLapse that I mentioned already). But the Vixen and iOptron products have very limited tacking rates and can't track at a rotation speed of 360º in 3-4 hours like you mentioned above and the AstroTrac is basically a modern "barn door" tracker so it can't even do a 360º rotation. I think this means you'd have to scratch all of these other heads off your list.

It actually can rotate continuously (it's not limited to 360º) and it has 9 selectable tracking rates, which include:
1) Sidereal speed (23 hrs 56 mins 4 seconds to complete a 360º circle. This is actually the speed that the Earth turns and that's why it has to be the speed to track the stars for long exposure astrophotography)
2) Solar speed (24 hours to complete a 360º circle.)
3-9) 7.5, 20, 30, 40, 60, 120, and 240 degrees per hour. For example, picking the 120º/hr rate would mean that it would complete a 360º rotation in 3 hours. (BTW, it does not stop until you turn it off and once you set the tracking rate and start it, it locks out changes until you turn it off. This prevents someone from bumping a control, changing it's tracking speed, and thus destroying hours worth of careful work because you don't find out that the tracking rate got changed until you review your images later.)

Based on this, it *might* be the only product that does everything you want.

Another nice thing about the Losmandy is that it's designed to keep the camera neutrally balanced while in operation. If a camera isn't balanced then it would put either more load or less load on the motor as it rotates (depending on whether it's lifting the weight of a lens or if the lens is on it's way back down to the opposite horizon.) On the Losmandy system, the camera mount slides along a bar (actually there are a few adjustments) so that the thing is mounted so that it's center of gravity is position at the rotation axis. That means the load on the motor won't change over the hours and the tracking rate will remain consistent (it's a very well thought-out and engineered piece of gear.)

To do astro-imaging you still need a tripod head that can let you adjust the tilt angle (a video head works better than a photo / ball-head) so that the rotation axis of the StarLapse points to the north celestial pole (the pole-star ... Polaris in the northern hemisphere ... is about 2/3º away from the pole but usually close enough for wide-field images. For longer focal length lenses they do sell an optional polar-alignment scope that installs in the center of the unit and it has an illuminated etched reticle alignment aids that helps you do much more precise polar alignment.)

Again, they are talking about landscape astrophotography, and not deep space type stuff that requires tracking. The Syrp Genie will work for this, using their panning base on your tripod. Costs $800. I don't think they are any other or cheaper motorized options

 

[TCampbell]

Again, they are talking about landscape astrophotography, and not deep space type stuff that requires tracking. The Syrp Genie will work for this, using their panning base on your tripod. Costs $800. I don't think they are any other or cheaper motorized options

If you have stars in your image and you don't want star trails and you want a long enough exposure to saturate light, see the Milky Way, etc. then the exposure durations are limited to the formulas:

• For full frame sensors that's 600 ÷ lens focal length = seconds of exposure to avoid star trails.
• For crop-frame sensors that's about 375 ÷ lens focal length = seconds of exposure to avoid star trails.

Some people reduce the 600 or 375 values to more conservative values (e.g. 500 instead of 600 and 300 instead of 375).

If you do these, then typically you would use an ultra wide-angle lens (e.g. something down around 14mm on a full frame camera or 10mm on a crop-frame camera.) Full-frame cameras are highly preferred for astrophotography due to their ability to capture wider fields of view, get longer exposure times, and are typically able to operate at higher ISO with less noise.

If the lens focal length is short enough then exposures times of 30 or even 40 seconds are possible. For these, the camera can be stationary (tracking is optional because the angular movement will be so tiny that it should not be enough to be noticeable the image.)

As soon as you cross that threshold where the exposure extends beyond the formula times, you'll no longer get "round" stars. To avoid that, you have to use a polar-aligned tracking head and it has to track at sidereal speed.

 

[jsecordphoto]

Again, they are talking about landscape astrophotography, and not deep space type stuff that requires tracking. The Syrp Genie will work for this, using their panning base on your tripod. Costs $800. I don't think they are any other or cheaper motorized options

If you have stars in your image and you don't want star trails and you want a long enough exposure to saturate light, see the Milky Way, etc. then the exposure durations are limited to the formulas:

• For full frame sensors that's 600 ÷ lens focal length = seconds of exposure to avoid star trails.
• For crop-frame sensors that's about 375 ÷ lens focal length = seconds of exposure to avoid star trails.

Some people reduce the 600 or 375 values to more conservative values (e.g. 500 instead of 600 and 300 instead of 375).

If you do these, then typically you would use an ultra wide-angle lens (e.g. something down around 14mm on a full frame camera or 10mm on a crop-frame camera.) Full-frame cameras are highly preferred for astrophotography due to their ability to capture wider fields of view, get longer exposure times, and are typically able to operate at higher ISO with less noise.

If the lens focal length is short enough then exposures times of 30 or even 40 seconds are possible. For these, the camera can be stationary (tracking is optional because the angular movement will be so tiny that it should not be enough to be noticeable the image.)

As soon as you cross that threshold where the exposure extends beyond the formula times, you'll no longer get "round" stars. To avoid that, you have to use a polar-aligned tracking head and it has to track at sidereal speed.

Yeah, I know all of this- I run workshops sometimes in the summer on landscape astrophotography and it's something I specialize in. The OP isn't talking about doing any sort of deep space or long exposures that would require a tracking mount, they are asking about a motorized head that will be used for motion control timelapses. Something that moves the camera slightly in between 20-30" exposures so that when you render the final timelapse, there is movement in the foreground.

 

[PulsarBG]

Thank you Tim and Jsecordphoto, that was some very usefull info
Cheers

Emil

 

[graemecky]

I'm not sure what you mean by "one with stops for long shutter exposure" for astrophotography. For astrophotography the head has to keep moving -- specifically at something called "sidereal" speed. That means it does a completely rotation in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4 seconds. That's the true speed at which the Earth rotates on it's axis (not 24 hours). The Earth advances about 1º in it's orbit around the sun per day. So while the Earth has rotated 360º in slightly less than a day, the Sun will appear to have moved (due to the Earth's orbit around the Sun) and that's where it takes nearly 4 more minutes of Earth rotating before the Sun returns to the same point in the sky (e.g. local noon one day until local noon the following day.)

There are numerous video panning heads but I'm not aware of any that can rotate continuously (most control tilt as well as pan and that means they have to run wires to the tilt-axis and that creates an internal wire-wraps problem -- so products like the Bescor MP-360 give you a 360º rotation... just not continuously (CamRanger sells the MP-360 head so that it can be remotely controlled via a smart-device such as an Apple or Google phone or tablet. And then of course you have to own the CamRanger itself and still buy the MP-360 so the price adds up.) These tracking heads do not have speeds appropriate for astrophotography.

Though I do most of my astro-imaging with a telescope and a Losmandy G11 mount, I *just* acquired a Losmandy StarLapse system -- which is intended to mount on photo tripods and hold cameras rather than telescopes.

See: Losmandy StarLapse System

I haven't done any "real" work with it yet other than just some quick tests to make sure it's working. I'm planning to use it extensively on an upcoming trip to Hawaii which has CONSIDERABLY better dark-skies and steadier atmosphere conditions than I can normally get. Bringing my imaging telescope and mount would be impractical (and I'd be terrified that the airline baggage handlers would damage it.) So the StarLapse system (which would fit in a carry-on case) is ideal.

There are a number of tracking and panning heads. For astrophotography there's the Vixen Polarie, the iOptron SkyTracker, and the AstroTrac (in addition to the Losmandy StarLapse that I mentioned already). But the Vixen and iOptron products have very limited tacking rates and can't track at a rotation speed of 360º in 3-4 hours like you mentioned above and the AstroTrac is basically a modern "barn door" tracker so it can't even do a 360º rotation. I think this means you'd have to scratch all of these other heads off your list.

It actually can rotate continuously (it's not limited to 360º) and it has 9 selectable tracking rates, which include:
1) Sidereal speed (23 hrs 56 mins 4 seconds to complete a 360º circle. This is actually the speed that the Earth turns and that's why it has to be the speed to track the stars for long exposure astrophotography)
2) Solar speed (24 hours to complete a 360º circle.)
3-9) 7.5, 20, 30, 40, 60, 120, and 240 degrees per hour. For example, picking the 120º/hr rate would mean that it would complete a 360º rotation in 3 hours. (BTW, it does not stop until you turn it off and once you set the tracking rate and start it, it locks out changes until you turn it off. This prevents someone from bumping a control, changing it's tracking speed, and thus destroying hours worth of careful work because you don't find out that the tracking rate got changed until you review your images later.)

Based on this, it *might* be the only product that does everything you want.

Another nice thing about the Losmandy is that it's designed to keep the camera neutrally balanced while in operation. If a camera isn't balanced then it would put either more load or less load on the motor as it rotates (depending on whether it's lifting the weight of a lens or if the lens is on it's way back down to the opposite horizon.) On the Losmandy system, the camera mount slides along a bar (actually there are a few adjustments) so that the thing is mounted so that it's center of gravity is position at the rotation axis. That means the load on the motor won't change over the hours and the tracking rate will remain consistent (it's a very well thought-out and engineered piece of gear.)

To do astro-imaging you still need a tripod head that can let you adjust the tilt angle (a video head works better than a photo / ball-head) so that the rotation axis of the StarLapse points to the north celestial pole (the pole-star ... Polaris in the northern hemisphere ... is about 2/3º away from the pole but usually close enough for wide-field images. For longer focal length lenses they do sell an optional polar-alignment scope that installs in the center of the unit and it has an illuminated etched reticle alignment aids that helps you do much more precise polar alignment.)

 

[graemecky]

Hi , I am new member here and interested how the rotation device work. If you buy the movo brand rotation device , you can set the device to 1 hr or so but not sure how it work if use for star trails photography. I want to create a series of photo of 30 sec each with wide angle len and later render to video moving timelapse video. As there is no connection to the dslr camera body which I use intervolmeter, will the image taken will be blur while the shuttler open and the rotation device moving ? Will it affect the images or very marginal not noticeable? The genie mini is too expensive for me.

 

[fred76]

The 400/450/500/550/600 rule is obsolete. There is one rule that works for any digital camera, and whatever the focal and aperture : the NPF rule.

You were looking for cheap panorama head that could be able to control the camera. There are some :
- Skywatcher Adventurer : capacity up to 5 kg
- Skywatcher Adventurer Mini Wifi : capacity up to 3 kg

They price between $300 and $400. You shall add a stiff tripod.

The last one is controled by your smartphone (iOS 8+/Android 14+) and is really nice. It can do both astronomical photos up to 150 mm focal length, and panorama, stills and timelapses. As it synchronises the shots with the movement, it does not move when a photo is shot, only between two shots. Other modes are possible.

Fred

 

[graemecky]

Hi Fred, thanks for the reply, yeah this is the gear I am looking at it, so for every 30 sec my camera shuttler open and 2 sec interval stop and my camera will be continously taking it for 1 hr while the rotation head move sync with the camera taking the shots. So no choice as this is more affordable one as the other normal rotation head will be jerky if no control over the camera shuttler.