Looking for some advice

[tobad34]

Hello all,

I apologize if the post ends up being a bit too long ahead of time.

Looking for some advice from those that might already have gone through this before.

Photography is my hobby (I'm sure you heard that one before). At this time the only business part of it would be making some side cash to pay for new gear and gadgets (once again, famous last words). I am obviously not a professional and I fully understand where my skill set is currently at.

Since I am getting money involved with the hobby, I also fully understand that some "issues" might arise with the possible customers and that it will be a learning curve to get those ironed out for future shoots. After all we learn from our mistakes.

I had my first opportunity to make some cash shooting kids portraits for a co-worker of mine. Since I don't do this as my primary job, I let the person offer me what they though was fair for the payment. I was happy with what they gave me.

I went in thinking that we'll take a couple shots, I'll pick the nice photos and edit them, get some cash donation and every one is happy.

Without going to super details here is the quick break down of what went on.

Went to their house, took about 100+ shots of the kids with different portrait poses, chose about 10 best shots of the 100 or so captures, post edited them, gave them to the co-worker. I thought I covered the poses we tried and had one good photo of each.

It seems that the co-workers wife "expected" more photos, since I apparently shot 100+ captures. After explaining to my co-worker that not all photos were "good enough" by my standard (blurred, flash didn't fire, bad pose, etc.) and that I was not going to post edit 100+ photos, I gave up and ended up giving them all the other unedited RAW files converted to JPG's, so that they can do whatever with them (I will have to work with this person every day ).

To wrap up this story, we are all good and still working together , but there were lessons to be learned from this for me. I consider this my beta run.

Since at the moment it looks like I might be able to pickup few more shoots, I decided to create a workflow for myself. This way I can educate my possible customers about what to expect and not to expect during the whole process.

The advice I'm looking for I guess, would be what kind of workflows do you all have with your customers? The basics at least. I am aware of a bunch of books out there that deal with this, but I'd rather get the info from the horses mouth.

How do you explain to your customers that not all photos are going to be good ones and that you will discard of them, before the customer will even get a chance to see them. Are you obligated to give them those "bad" photos at all?

The mistakes I made are obvious to me now. I should have set the expectations for the customer, so they know what they are getting as the end product (number of photos, poses, etc.). I should have let them online proof similar shots and let them pick the winners which then I would post process for them. We could probably go on and on.

Here is what I kind of workflow I put together (short version) so far:

1. Discuss the shoot process with subject(s), set expectations, price.
2. Sign a contract with the agreed terms/prices. (updated from your ideas)
3. Sign model release form.
4. Setup gear, lights, etc.
5. Shoot.
6. Clean up.
7. Dark Room - First round proof/import (discard obvious bad photos).
8. Dark Room - Second round proof (pick few photos with similar poses).
9. Dark Room - Upload to site, let customer pick the winners.
10. Dark Room - Post edit customer picks.
11. Dark Room - Export to JPG, CD/DVD, website download for quicker access.
12. Sign artist release form (Walgreens didn't want to print the photos for my co-worker without one).
13. Deliver the end product.
14. Get paid.
15. Buy more gear!

Thanks for your time and any info you can share!

Paul.

 

[SpeedTrap]

1) Have them sign a contract.

That is the only way to fully agree to the services you are going to provide.
YOu do not need anything too in depth, but make sure everything is in writing.

 

[RockstarPhotography]

One thing I do is go through and get rid of the obvious bad ones. from there I just number and watermark "proof" on them and send them to the client for them to pick out the edits. In the contract it states a price per edit so they can pick what their budget allows.

 

[Big Mike]

It sounds like you learned a valuable lesson, and learned it well. The most important thing is to have the expectations sorted out first. Having a signed contract in place is also a very good way of getting that done.

Many photographers don't let the client see their 'non keepers'. So letting them choose their favorites may not be the best solution...but some do work that way. There is a saying that goes something like 'The difference between a good photographer and a bad photographer, is the size of their garbage bin'. In other words, to be thought of as a good photographer, only show people (whether friends or clients) your best work. We like to judge ourselves by our best work, but there is every chance that someone else may judge us by our worst work...so only show them the best that you have.

This does get a little tricky with kids, because every shot may be an expression that the parents love, but there does need to be a line drawn somewhere.

As for what I'd say, I'd tell them that, I used my professional judgement to choose the best photos and take those ones through to completion.

On-line proofing (and sales) are certainly an option. I have an on-line 'Photocart' on my website where clients can view their photos and order prints etc. But I don't use it for proofing. Almost always, the shots that go up there are finished.

 

[tobad34]

We like to judge ourselves by our best work, but there is every chance that someone else may judge us by our worst work...so only show them the best that you have.

I am 150% behind that statement and it's something I am going to stick to.

I set myself up when I didn't talk this out with the people before firing the first capture. I guess the most important lesson is: Don't assume anything!