Macbook Pro Vs. Laptop

[e.rose]

I LIKE BACON.

 

[Ysarex]

But you have to wonder - is this too good toi be true? Perhaps fanboys will say it's the "Apple Tax" but I'm just not convinced by that argument, if it's not going into an Apple Tax, the only conclusion one can make is in it's internal components.

What kind of thermal management does it have? Did they opt for the more expensive heat pipe, or a less efficient but cheaper heat sink? How well will the keyboard survive a spill? Who built the hard drive, the fans, the optical drive? What kind of technical specifications were used in it's manufacturing, did they use high end electronic components, adhesives and connectors, or ones built to lower thermal tolerances? What is it's environmental impact, is it RHoC compliant? How much testing was put into it's development before manufacture?

When I'm buying Chinese studio gear, I don't go for the cheap one with all the bells and whistles, I go for the ones with fewer features but cost more. This is because I suspect that, while the less expensive monolight may have a digital display and greater wattage, they must have chimped out elsewhere, in places where it really matters.

There is a lot to consider - and a lot of it cannot really be answered, but on the flip side there is a price point that you can just justify the lower cost as it being a "disposable" machine.

I've never been a heavy laptop user however in my job I had to purchase and support classrooms full of Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Let's look at that Apple tax using me as an example. When I retired from full-time teaching 4 years ago the plan was that I would continue to teach part-time for the foreseeable future. I do that now on multiple campuses. Without the access that full-time faculty status provides I learned after the first year that I needed a laptop. So 3 years ago I bought one and I've used it heavily since. My choice at the time given my part-time teacher pay was the $1000.00 13.3 inch Macbook 2.4 GHz core duo with 2 GB ram, 250 GB (5400 rpm) hard drive, built-in wifi and NVIDIA graphics or a non-mac.

I spent $300.00 less than the Macbook and bought a Toshiba A665 satellite. Let's stand that up against the Macbook. But first let me say that the A665 is still working great and has never given me a stitch of trouble. It runs Win7 and runs all my photo software including Capture One 7, DPP, Adobe CS6, Photo Ninja, Raw Therapee, LightZone, Oloneo and some misc. stuff. With it's 8 GB of ram it runs Capture One 7 and CS6 simultaneously. That Macbook with 4 GB ram would have croaked at the attempt.

My A665 has a 2.4 GHz i3 core processor -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came standard with 4GB ram -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 was expandable to 8GB ram -- beat the Macbook which was only expandable to 4.
My A665 came with a 16 inch display -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with a 500 GB hard drive -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 hard drive spins at 7200 rpm -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with Harman Kardon speakers -- swat the Macbook.
My A665 came with a standard external HDMI port (really handy to connect to external display at home and in classroom) -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an Express/card slot so I could for example add USB 3 right now -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an extended-life battery running the computer for over 5 hours -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an eSATA/USB port which is really nice because it will charge my USB devices while the A665 is powered off -- beat the Macbook.
And the list continues.

In every possible way, for $300.00 less, my Toshiba satellite beat that Macbook. Last year while I was upgrading my desktop and dragging my feet I used the A665 as my only computer connecting to my desktop display via that HDMI port. It ran every day, all day for three months and went twice a week to class. I expect I'll get a couple more years out of it.

I paid 1/3 less and got a whole lot more. It's an Apple tax. There's no way you're going to convince me that Toshiba is knocking out cheaper stuff or cutting corners that Apple isn't. There's one thing my A665 lacks -- it's not cool and neither am I. But I can run Capture One 7 and CS6 simultaneously; that's kinda cool.

Joe

 

[IByte]

Get a PC laptop and invest in a really nice monitor. The price of both wouldn't come close to a Mac, plus editing on even the biggest laptop is a pain.

ummmm, your avatar just moved.

 

[unpopular]

But you have to wonder - is this too good toi be true? Perhaps fanboys will say it's the "Apple Tax" but I'm just not convinced by that argument, if it's not going into an Apple Tax, the only conclusion one can make is in it's internal components.

What kind of thermal management does it have? Did they opt for the more expensive heat pipe, or a less efficient but cheaper heat sink? How well will the keyboard survive a spill? Who built the hard drive, the fans, the optical drive? What kind of technical specifications were used in it's manufacturing, did they use high end electronic components, adhesives and connectors, or ones built to lower thermal tolerances? What is it's environmental impact, is it RHoC compliant? How much testing was put into it's development before manufacture?

When I'm buying Chinese studio gear, I don't go for the cheap one with all the bells and whistles, I go for the ones with fewer features but cost more. This is because I suspect that, while the less expensive monolight may have a digital display and greater wattage, they must have chimped out elsewhere, in places where it really matters.

There is a lot to consider - and a lot of it cannot really be answered, but on the flip side there is a price point that you can just justify the lower cost as it being a "disposable" machine.

I've never been a heavy laptop user however in my job I had to purchase and support classrooms full of Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Let's look at that Apple tax using me as an example. When I retired from full-time teaching 4 years ago the plan was that I would continue to teach part-time for the foreseeable future. I do that now on multiple campuses. Without the access that full-time faculty status provides I learned after the first year that I needed a laptop. So 3 years ago I bought one and I've used it heavily since. My choice at the time given my part-time teacher pay was the $1000.00 13.3 inch Macbook 2.4 GHz core duo with 2 GB ram, 250 GB (5400 rpm) hard drive, built-in wifi and NVIDIA graphics or a non-mac.

I spent $300.00 less than the Macbook and bought a Toshiba A665 satellite. Let's stand that up against the Macbook. But first let me say that the A665 is still working great and has never given me a stitch of trouble. It runs Win7 and runs all my photo software including Capture One 7, DPP, Adobe CS6, Photo Ninja, Raw Therapee, LightZone, Oloneo and some misc. stuff. With it's 8 GB of ram it runs Capture One 7 and CS6 simultaneously. That Macbook with 4 GB ram would have croaked at the attempt.

My A665 has a 2.4 GHz i3 core processor -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came standard with 4GB ram -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 was expandable to 8GB ram -- beat the Macbook which was only expandable to 4.
My A665 came with a 16 inch display -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with a 500 GB hard drive -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 hard drive spins at 7200 rpm -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with Harman Kardon speakers -- swat the Macbook.
My A665 came with a standard external HDMI port (really handy to connect to external display at home and in classroom) -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an Express/card slot so I could for example add USB 3 right now -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an extended-life battery running the computer for over 5 hours -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an eSATA/USB port which is really nice because it will charge my USB devices while the A665 is powered off -- beat the Macbook.
And the list continues.

In every possible way, for $300.00 less, my Toshiba satellite beat that Macbook. Last year while I was upgrading my desktop and dragging my feet I used the A665 as my only computer connecting to my desktop display via that HDMI port. It ran every day, all day for three months and went twice a week to class. I expect I'll get a couple more years out of it.

I paid 1/3 less and got a whole lot more. It's an Apple tax. There's no way you're going to convince me that Toshiba is knocking out cheaper stuff or cutting corners that Apple isn't. There's one thing my A665 lacks -- it's not cool and neither am I. But I can run Capture One 7 and CS6 simultaneously; that's kinda cool.

Joe

That's nice, but does it run MacOS? And how much was your last Windows upgrade??

 

[unpopular]

Oh, and BTW - I only have 2gb on my 2009 Macbook 5,1, and am only now starting to feel the crunch.

Then again, I don't use a lot of bloatware from Adobe and PhaseOne either. But I do run Reaper, Numerology and MainStage together routed together using CoreMIDI and Soundflower, I'm getting about 41ms latency but is otherwise not bad unless I use more than one Sculpture synth track.

 

[Brookeroo]

They had told me that while it appears you are buying less memory and ram on a laptop that you could double what the mac can accomplish on what appears to be less than what a laptop can do. Judging from some of the discussion here it appears that may be somewhat accurate.

It has been a long time since I had to buy a new setup so I have no idea what I need these days since I'm just starting my search. I will basically be running it for Photoshop, Lightroom and probably Elements. I also run a small business out of my home and currently use the microsoft stuff, word, excel, and outlook primarily. Those are the major components at this point I need to run.

I had considered buying a lesser Macbook Pro and get the Time Capsule. Now ... I can't decide what direction to go in. I guess I just have to figure out what I need along both spectrums for what I'm looking to do and go from there at this point.

 

[unpopular]

There is NO reason to get a time capsule. Just go to wal mat and get an external HD and set it up as a time machine. Some products have a greater apple tax than others, airport base stations, apple TVs and time capsules are such products.

 

[Ysarex]

But you have to wonder - is this too good toi be true? Perhaps fanboys will say it's the "Apple Tax" but I'm just not convinced by that argument, if it's not going into an Apple Tax, the only conclusion one can make is in it's internal components.

What kind of thermal management does it have? Did they opt for the more expensive heat pipe, or a less efficient but cheaper heat sink? How well will the keyboard survive a spill? Who built the hard drive, the fans, the optical drive? What kind of technical specifications were used in it's manufacturing, did they use high end electronic components, adhesives and connectors, or ones built to lower thermal tolerances? What is it's environmental impact, is it RHoC compliant? How much testing was put into it's development before manufacture?

When I'm buying Chinese studio gear, I don't go for the cheap one with all the bells and whistles, I go for the ones with fewer features but cost more. This is because I suspect that, while the less expensive monolight may have a digital display and greater wattage, they must have chimped out elsewhere, in places where it really matters.

There is a lot to consider - and a lot of it cannot really be answered, but on the flip side there is a price point that you can just justify the lower cost as it being a "disposable" machine.

I've never been a heavy laptop user however in my job I had to purchase and support classrooms full of Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Let's look at that Apple tax using me as an example. When I retired from full-time teaching 4 years ago the plan was that I would continue to teach part-time for the foreseeable future. I do that now on multiple campuses. Without the access that full-time faculty status provides I learned after the first year that I needed a laptop. So 3 years ago I bought one and I've used it heavily since. My choice at the time given my part-time teacher pay was the $1000.00 13.3 inch Macbook 2.4 GHz core duo with 2 GB ram, 250 GB (5400 rpm) hard drive, built-in wifi and NVIDIA graphics or a non-mac.

I spent $300.00 less than the Macbook and bought a Toshiba A665 satellite. Let's stand that up against the Macbook. But first let me say that the A665 is still working great and has never given me a stitch of trouble. It runs Win7 and runs all my photo software including Capture One 7, DPP, Adobe CS6, Photo Ninja, Raw Therapee, LightZone, Oloneo and some misc. stuff. With it's 8 GB of ram it runs Capture One 7 and CS6 simultaneously. That Macbook with 4 GB ram would have croaked at the attempt.

My A665 has a 2.4 GHz i3 core processor -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came standard with 4GB ram -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 was expandable to 8GB ram -- beat the Macbook which was only expandable to 4.
My A665 came with a 16 inch display -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with a 500 GB hard drive -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 hard drive spins at 7200 rpm -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with Harman Kardon speakers -- swat the Macbook.
My A665 came with a standard external HDMI port (really handy to connect to external display at home and in classroom) -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an Express/card slot so I could for example add USB 3 right now -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an extended-life battery running the computer for over 5 hours -- beat the Macbook.
My A665 came with an eSATA/USB port which is really nice because it will charge my USB devices while the A665 is powered off -- beat the Macbook.
And the list continues.

In every possible way, for $300.00 less, my Toshiba satellite beat that Macbook. Last year while I was upgrading my desktop and dragging my feet I used the A665 as my only computer connecting to my desktop display via that HDMI port. It ran every day, all day for three months and went twice a week to class. I expect I'll get a couple more years out of it.

I paid 1/3 less and got a whole lot more. It's an Apple tax. There's no way you're going to convince me that Toshiba is knocking out cheaper stuff or cutting corners that Apple isn't. There's one thing my A665 lacks -- it's not cool and neither am I. But I can run Capture One 7 and CS6 simultaneously; that's kinda cool.

Joe

That's nice, but does it run MacOS? And how much was your last Windows upgrade??

It is nice and no it doesn't run the MacOS. It will run Linux if I want but Windows is fine. If you're buying a computer these days and allowing features of the OS to determine your hardware choice, you have a problem. Do you really buy a computer to use the OS?!! What the bleep do you do using the OS?!! File management?!! I spend 99% of my time using application software on my computer. The OS is supposed to stay in the background and not bother me. I don't use Windows or Linux or the MacOS I use Photoshop and C1 and DPP and Photo Ninja and Finale, etc.

The last time I paid for a Windows upgrade was when I upgraded my desktop from XP to Win 7. That cost me $39.00. My A665 came with Win 7 Pro installed and my new desktop came with Win 8 Pro installed. Otherwise I have some Linux (Ubuntu) systems here at home.

At the campuses where I teach I have a lot of Macs that run the MacOS. I'm comfortable with that as well but when I use those computers I also spend 99% of my time using Photoshop and LR and Capture NX etc. The OS is only an issue as a support platform for application software. Considered as such what's important is whether the OS supports all of the application software that you need to use to get your work done. And that by the way is one of the problems (albeit minor) with the MacOS. There's a huge amount of additional software available that runs under the OS that the vast majority of people use every day. Wonder why it is that the vast majority of people who use computers every day don't use the MacOS?

Joe

 

[Ysarex]

Oh, and BTW - I only have 2gb on my 2009 Macbook 5,1, and am only now starting to feel the crunch.

Then again, I don't use a lot of bloatware from Adobe and PhaseOne either. But I do run Reaper, Numerology and MainStage together routed together using CoreMIDI and Soundflower, I'm getting about 41ms latency but is otherwise not bad unless I use more than one Sculpture synth track.

That's really nice for you but I make my living teaching people how to use Photoshop so I have to have Photoshop and LR available to demo in class. One of the campuses where I teach has a roll around cart with 20 of those white 13.3" Macbooks with 2 GB ram and 250 GB hard drives. They put CS4 on them and then abandoned them because they were basically unusable. The cart sits in a corner of the photo lab ignored now. They bought new iMacs and upgraded to CS5. Along with the rest of the installed software those iMacs are strained with 4 GB ram installed. Sorry Photoshop is the default standard; you didn't do it and I didn't do it but it's been done and I have to live with it -- getting a paycheck helps and so does 8 GB ram.

Joe

 

[unpopular]

Wonder why it is that the vast majority of people who use computers every day don't use the MacOS?

A lot of people bought spice girls albums, too.

First of all, no, the OS is more than just a filing system, that's just silly. All MacOS's are 64bit, you have to pay extra for this on windows. Windows is still behind on OpenCL - this is a bit of a double-edged sword though, because it might end up slowing down older laptops due to heavy GPU usage.

Is the OS worth an initial investment of $300? For you, obviously not. But a lot of people use Mac with NO problems at all, and for most of us that $300 *is* worth it. Does that make us all a bunch of elitist snobs? A bunch of spoiled rich kids who think we're better than everyone else?

I can run Linux on my Mac also, so I'm not real sure what that's all about.

I'm not sure what your deal is here. I mean, what's with this emotional attachment? Why such fanboyism? What does it matter to you if I've spent too much money on my own computer? I've tried to stay pretty neutral on this subject, because seriously - it *doesn't really matter*

Is there an "apple tax", I always said that there was. But can you compare a $1500 macbook pro with a $500 souped up netbook from Acer? No. Not any more than you can a $1300 Lenovo or Vaio.

And sorry to say, folks. But a measly $300 isn't going to get you very far in getting a "good" monitor, especially considering that monitors in this price range won't include any calibration hardware.

 

[Gavjenks]

If you have the money and just want a nice computer that will do everything pretty well (including photo editing) and looks snazzy, sure, get a mac.

If you actually intend to build a system that is optimized for photo editing performance per dollar, then a PC will be vastly more efficient, though. It's not that PCs are magically better. it's that you can build your own more flexibly, and avoid paying for the stuff that doesn't matter for photo editing, if that's what you want to do.

What matters for still photos is: CPU (multicores are not such a great help just yet in photo software for most actions), to a lesser extent GPU, and monitor.

Things that DON'T matter are: hard drive, keyboard and mouse, RAM (only if you're lazy and can't bother closing an image before moving onto the next one), audio speakers, battery life, your browser and office software, etc.



When you buy a mac, you're buying decent all of the above, including all the stuff you don't need if you want a specialized box. Which is potentially wasteful. Unless this is your everyday computer, and you will actually USE everything that comes with it, in which case it's just like a PC but with somewhat nicer build quality and looks, pretty much, and a price tag to match.




^This is for still photos. Totally different things apply for video.

 

[unpopular]

What matters for still photos is: CPU (multicores are not such a great help just yet in photo software for most actions), to a lesser extent GPU, and monitor.

Things that DON'T matter are: hard drive, keyboard and mouse, RAM (only if you're lazy and can't bother closing an image before moving onto the next one), audio speakers, battery life, your browser and office software, etc.

Yeah. You don't have any clue what you're talking about here, do you? You couldn't be more wrong on about every point. Hard drive speed and condition and available RAM in particular are probably the largest bottlenecks in most systems. In fact, most day to day editing is not particularly processor intensive.

You're half correct on the GPU, but this is becoming less and less true as more processes are being handled by the GPU, and already much of Adobe Photoshops GUI and several filters can optionally take advantage of the GPU. This framework is actually one area where MacOS is clearly ahead.