Mountain goat grazing downhill

LRLala · Mar 25, 2019

Okay, what about this one? What would improve the picture?

LRLala · Mar 25, 2019

Okay, I'm new... why did the picture come thru as an attached file?

smoke665 · Mar 25, 2019

Turn it upside down and call it Moutain Goat grazing uphill????? LOL Sorry it's been one of those days.

All kidding aside while I'm normally a fill the frame type of guy, on this one I think it might benefit from more of the goats environment. The upward slope leads the eye up, but there just isn't enough interest in the goat to hold the eye.

JonFZ300 · Mar 25, 2019

I agree with smoke. Having the goat cover a smaller part of the scene would give the downward angle some context. My eye just jumps around and it's not satisfying. There's nowhere to go once you get to the goat's face. And the crop is so tight, there's not much to indicate he's actually facing downhill. I just keep trying to resolve that weird angle. It's a great subject though.

LRLala · Mar 25, 2019

Hmmm, I'll have to consider that. I guess since I was there and knew how steep it was, I didn't need more scene around the goat, but another viewer might.

JonFZ300 · Mar 25, 2019

LRLala said:
Hmmm, I'll have to consider that. I guess since I was there and knew how steep it was, I didn't need more scene around the goat, but another viewer might.

Everything in front of the goat looks like it's growing vertically relative to the goat and all the stuff in the top left looks the same. The only thing showing the angle of the hill are the couple of little tufts of grass on the left and they could just be windblown in that direction.

Edit: I saw you have it set to NOT OK to edit so I removed the image. Sorry

smoke665 · Mar 25, 2019

LRLala said:
Hmmm, I'll have to consider that. I guess since I was there and knew how steep it was, I didn't need more scene around the goat, but another viewer might.

Bingo! When you're on location you have the benefit of all your senses. You hear the wind, you feel the cold, you smell the woods, you taste anything carried on the wind, you unconsciously compensate for the slope by leaning, but most importantly you see everything around you in glorious 3D color with a dynamic range that cameras can't come close on. You're brain quickly uses all of that to process everything you might see, feel or think about that view, but when you take an image you're only giving the viewer a tiny little sample of what you see. A two dimensional picture from which the viewer must derive all the other elements. Was the goat on a mountain side or on a big rock, was it really cold or just residual snow, was this in the wilderness or an animal park, the list goes on. You as the photographer have to present it in a way that the viewer will be able to draw conclusions and reconcile how your primary focal point fits into the rest of the frame. Otherwise as the poster above mentioned the eye jumps around because the brain can't figure out WTH it's looking at, and it's trying to lock onto a starting point.

JonFZ300 · Mar 25, 2019

^^^all of that

LRLala · Mar 25, 2019

Super explanation! Thank you so much, both of you, for your insights! I'll definitely keep that in mind in the future. I was so excited about seeing the goats and wanting to get up close to them to touch their hair, look into their eyes, feel the strength of their horns, smell their wildness, … getting as close as possible with the camera was my only option. I have more pictures of them that do show more of the mountainside. There were, in fact, 4 goats in that group; a nanny and kid, and two others that I guess were billy goats. Half a mile down the mountainside were 5 more, and then beyond were even more. It was an exciting shoot in the late afternoon.

LRLala · Mar 25, 2019

I do see what you mean about the direction of all the plant growth around the goat. That's pretty much the way things grow around here. We have tons of sage brush and similar plants that spread out every which way plus a lot of wind. Other people don't know that, though.

smoke665 · Mar 25, 2019

LRLala said:
I was so excited about seeing the goats and wanting to get up close to them to touch their hair, look into their eyes, feel the strength of their horns, smell their wildness, … getting as close as possible with the camera

There you go, now show that. Just remember I said "You as the photographer have to present it in a way that the viewer will be able to draw conclusions and reconcile how your primary focal point fits into the rest of the frame" I reread my post and I might not have been clear enough. It's okay to get in close, just make sure when you're composing your shot that your focal point is what draws the eye in. IE: A close up of a Rams head works, because there's nothing to distract you from the eyes or horns. The mind doesn't look for more because the borders of the frame stop the eye, and the strong focal point brings it right back. Just be careful about how close you get I've heard those suckers pack a wallop, that might well send you off the mountain.

I don't know your skill level or experience so I apologize in advance if I'm giving you advise on things you already know. Art and photography are really one and the same, just a different medium. If you have a local library read up on the elements of composition in art. Here's a short read to get you started. The 8 Elements of Composition in Art and another more specific to photography 10 Elements Of Composition In Photography - The Gunny Sack Rules are not necessarily hard, but guides to a more pleasing composition.

DigiFilm · Mar 26, 2019

LRLala said:
I do see what you mean about the direction of all the plant growth around the goat. That's pretty much the way things grow around here. We have tons of sage brush and similar plants that spread out every which way plus a lot of wind. Other people don't know that, though.

There's nothing wrong with the plants. Things grow the way they grow, that's just the way it is.

Is that a crop or out of the camera? I'd like to see that photo as a vertical crop, with some more mountain in front of the goat. If you know the rule of thirds (and there's more to the original photo), try putting the goat at the upper right intersection with some ground in front of him.

LRLala · Mar 26, 2019

DigiFilm, first off, thank you for your comments. I totally hear where you're coming from and appreciate your viewpoint. I can't re-crop this picture because it is out of the camera. My husband and I both love it the way it is, but we were right there and know the terrain, etc. These are elusive animals and are usually too far away for me to get anywhere near them with the lenses I have. That day was different and I was able to get a ton of shots. In this one, I was looking to create the type of picture I see so often where the animal is obviously the center of attention and felt like I accomplished my goal, but I can also see where more of the surrounding mountainside would enrich the whole scene. I shot so many pics of those critters that I have a lot more to choose from and will play with some other renditions. Yes, I shoot using the rule of thirds on a lot of my pictures, but sometimes choose not to.