Moving (and upgrading) from DSLR to mirrorless

[jaomul]

For your type of photography I can't see a Sony a6000 or an olly e5 really being any better. There are some sensor improvements over the Canon, but I'm not sure they warrant a whole change of system


If you're set on changing and upgrading in one swoop, why mirrorless?

Don't get me wrong, there are brilliant mirrorless and brilliant dslrs but you don't say why not dslr. Do you care how the inside of the camera works?

The 70d you mention will do video well and slightly improved image quality, Fuji maybe slightly improved image quality, olly, grand and small, nice imager quality and lenses, probably same or less iso ability as what you have, but less ability to separate background from subject due physical sensor size.

Each system has for and against. Sony full frame a7 is affordable on your budget, maybe the existing lenses are as much as you need or maybe not.

For out and out image quality the Sony is probably your best bet. All the others are capable also, but strictly for quality it's hard to beat Sony full frame on your budget

 

[table1349]

Depending on the glass you have now you may want to consider this: Canon Unveils the M3 A 24.2MP Mirrorless That Feels More Like a DSLR in a Compact s Body

How can a camera that doesn't have a viewfinder (OVF or EVF) feel like a DSLR? From the looks of it even Panasonics first effort the G1 comes much closer to a DSLR feel. If cameras like this are the only experience you've had with mirrorless then I can see why your so set on keeping with a DSLR!

I don't know. Perhaps you should ask the autor of the article.

 

[FrenchPapa]

Take a look at Fuji X.

Joe

Thanks Joe... I was thinking about Fuji Xs as well. What's the big selling point on Fujis?

Way back in the day we used to have a saying; "Lenses take photos, cameras hold film." In other words if you're shopping to equip yourself to take photos then get your priorities in order and shop for the lenses you need/want and then select a film holder to use with them.

It's a little more complicated with today's digital cameras but there's still a lot of truth to that. Over the course of their corporate life-span Sony has been an electronics manufacturer. Fuji has been a lens maker. Look at the Fuji XF lens line up -- Sony does not compete. And Fuji makes some pretty good "sensor holders" to go with the lenses.

Joe

I absolutely love the idea of the camera as a "sensor holder." hilarious and yet devoid of non-sense. I will be checking out the Fujis.

 

[FrenchPapa]

For your type of photography I can't see a Sony a6000 or an olly e5 really being any better. There are some sensor improvements over the Canon, but I'm not sure they warrant a whole change of system


If you're set on changing and upgrading in one swoop, why mirrorless?

Don't get me wrong, there are brilliant mirrorless and brilliant dslrs but you don't say why not dslr. Do you care how the inside of the camera works?

The 70d you mention will do video well and slightly improved image quality, Fuji maybe slightly improved image quality, olly, grand and small, nice imager quality and lenses, probably same or less iso ability as what you have, but less ability to separate background from subject due physical sensor size.

Each system has for and against. Sony full frame a7 is affordable on your budget, maybe the existing lenses are as much as you need or maybe not.

For out and out image quality the Sony is probably your best bet. All the others are capable also, but strictly for quality it's hard to beat Sony full frame on your budget

My original intent was to buy a Canon 70D but a few things are leading me to change my mind:
- DSLR sales are going down by 15% per year and Mirrorless sales are going up by 15% per year (which means DSLRs will soon be the past and my resale value won't be great)
- more and more professionals are moving to mirrorless cameras (which leads me to believe that the quality is there, like the Sony sensors and the a7)
- for the price of a 70D, you can get a high-end full frame mirrorless (not bad)
- I would rather stick with Canon but it seems they are intent on ignoring the trend and creating a great mirrorless pro-sumer system... so that I can keep my lenses and NOT move brand.


and here for the counter argument:
6 Reasons Why Digital SLRs Are And Will Be Cool

 

[FrenchPapa]

Take a look at Fuji X.

Joe

I just looked at this little puppy and I think I am sold!! This camera is just awesome.
It looks to have everything I am looking for.
FUJIFILM X-T10 - Features X Series Digital Cameras Fujifilm USA

 

[Peeb73 2]

Good thread! Loving the info here.

 

[Gary A.]

I hope you enjoy the Fuji. But truthfully, I think would would have also enjoyed an EM1, A7 or 70D as well. Any of these cameras would be a step up from the T3i. Back to the Fuji, I recommend you start out with the 18-55 kit lens, it is considered by many as the best kit lens of all time.

 

[Peeb73 2]

I hope you enjoy the Fuji. But truthfully, I think would would have also enjoyed an EM1, A7 or 70D as well. Any of these cameras would be a step up from the T3i. Back to the Fuji, I recommend you start out with the 18-55 kit lens, it is considered by many as the best kit lens of all time.

How big of a step-up would the 70D yield? Refresh my memory - is that a FF camera?

 

[Gary A.]

I hope you enjoy the Fuji. But truthfully, I think would would have also enjoyed an EM1, A7 or 70D as well. Any of these cameras would be a step up from the T3i. Back to the Fuji, I recommend you start out with the 18-55 kit lens, it is considered by many as the best kit lens of all time.

How big of a step-up would the 70D yield? Refresh my memory - is that a FF camera?

70D is a 20mp APS-C camera.
XT1 = 694G vs 70D = 1233G
This is interesting, The XT1 has bigger pixels: 4.82 vs 4.11 microns
Bigger pixels = Better low-light and dynamic range (all else equal)

Generally, Canon's best lenses, 'L', are designed for FF cameras. Fuji's best lens are designed for APS-C. So comparing lenses of equal quality, the Fuji lenses will be significantly smaller and significantly less expensive.

A comparison is here:
Canon 70D vs Fujifilm X-T10

 

[sashbar]

I think if you want to switch from a beginner DSLR to mirrorless there are plenty of options. If you want to switch AND UPGRADE, there are only two at the moment: Sony a7 and FUJI X lines. (Three if we add Leica)

Both have great image quality. Sony a7 has the advantage of full frame, FUJI has superior lenses.

All you need is to decide if you really need a full frame system, what lenses are you going to buy for your camera and how much will it all cost. Both systems, if we talk about a camera plus 4-5-6 lenses, are not cheap.

I have never tried X-T10, but I have X-T1 which is similar. The image quality is exiting compared to beginners DSLRs, and the "kit" 18-55 lense is so good, it is just ridiculous.

35 mm is a great, great lense, highly recommended, 56 mm is top class, even small pancake 27 mm, if you want it light and compact for street shooting, is very good.
55-200 is a bit slow, but excellent as well and quite compact for its IQ. 10-24 is a very competent lense as well. I have switched from Nikon APS-C system and was amazed by FUJI XF lenses quality.

I do not know about Canon, but with Nikon I always felt (I do not state that it is indeed the case) like their APS-C lenses were intentionally dumbed down to encourage you to switch to FF lenses that are superb, but big, heavy and will cost you an arm and a leg. And a shoulder, if you carry it around all the time. FUJI do not produce FF systems , so they concentrate on top quality APS-C line that can compete with the best of Canikon.

You need to consider how much you will spend on lenses and whether the price difference between XT-1 and XT-10 is relevant is the context of the cost of your future system. XT-1 has one clear advantage in a great, huge EVF which is fun to use. It is just like looking into a big TV screen with all info you need, compared to a tiny baby DSLR OVF.

If you go for a mirrorless, you will need some spare batteries, a mirrorless is much more power hungry than a DSLR. I use cheap third party batteries without any problems, you can get a couple for $15 , they work similar to the original ones.

 

[FrenchPapa]

I think if you want to switch from a beginner DSLR to mirrorless there are plenty of options. If you want to switch AND UPGRADE, there are only two at the moment: Sony a7 and FUJI X lines. (Three if we add Leica)

Both have great image quality. Sony a7 has the advantage of full frame, FUJI has superior lenses.

All you need is to decide if you really need a full frame system, what lenses are you going to buy for your camera and how much will it all cost. Both systems, if we talk about a camera plus 4-5-6 lenses, are not cheap.

I have never tried X-T10, but I have X-T1 which is similar. The image quality is exiting compared to beginners DSLRs, and the "kit" 18-55 lense is so good, it is just ridiculous.

35 mm is a great, great lense, highly recommended, 56 mm is top class, even small pancake 27 mm, if you want it light and compact for street shooting, is very good.
55-200 is a bit slow, but excellent as well and quite compact for its IQ. 10-24 is a very competent lense as well. I have switched from Nikon APS-C system and was amazed by FUJI XF lenses quality.

I do not know about Canon, but with Nikon I always felt (I do not state that it is indeed the case) like their APS-C lenses were intentionally dumbed down to encourage you to switch to FF lenses that are superb, but big, heavy and will cost you an arm and a leg. And a shoulder, if you carry it around all the time. FUJI do not produce FF systems , so they concentrate on top quality APS-C line that can compete with the best of Canikon.

You need to consider how much you will spend on lenses and whether the price difference between XT-1 and XT-10 is relevant is the context of the cost of your future system. XT-1 has one clear advantage in a great, huge EVF which is fun to use. It is just like looking into a big TV screen with all info you need, compared to a tiny baby DSLR OVF.

If you go for a mirrorless, you will need some spare batteries, a mirrorless is much more power hungry than a DSLR. I use cheap third party batteries without any problems, you can get a couple for $15 , they work similar to the original ones.

WHOA! Thank you for the incredibly detailed and precise response of your answer. You have actually found the crux of the problem and I think I just made up my mind about what system to go for.

Sony has the superior camera (for the price) and a wider range of lenses but with Fuji having the better quality lenses (especially with such a good kit lens), I am SOLD on the Fuji. Someone else in the thread (forgetting who) reminded me I look long term and shop for lenses rather than for cameras so that's what I'll do: either a new Fuji X-T10 or a used/refurbished Fuji X-T1 will be what I'm getting I think.

Thanks.

 

[sashbar]

I think if you want to switch from a beginner DSLR to mirrorless there are plenty of options. If you want to switch AND UPGRADE, there are only two at the moment: Sony a7 and FUJI X lines. (Three if we add Leica)

Both have great image quality. Sony a7 has the advantage of full frame, FUJI has superior lenses.

All you need is to decide if you really need a full frame system, what lenses are you going to buy for your camera and how much will it all cost. Both systems, if we talk about a camera plus 4-5-6 lenses, are not cheap.

I have never tried X-T10, but I have X-T1 which is similar. The image quality is exiting compared to beginners DSLRs, and the "kit" 18-55 lense is so good, it is just ridiculous.

35 mm is a great, great lense, highly recommended, 56 mm is top class, even small pancake 27 mm, if you want it light and compact for street shooting, is very good.
55-200 is a bit slow, but excellent as well and quite compact for its IQ. 10-24 is a very competent lense as well. I have switched from Nikon APS-C system and was amazed by FUJI XF lenses quality.

I do not know about Canon, but with Nikon I always felt (I do not state that it is indeed the case) like their APS-C lenses were intentionally dumbed down to encourage you to switch to FF lenses that are superb, but big, heavy and will cost you an arm and a leg. And a shoulder, if you carry it around all the time. FUJI do not produce FF systems , so they concentrate on top quality APS-C line that can compete with the best of Canikon.

You need to consider how much you will spend on lenses and whether the price difference between XT-1 and XT-10 is relevant is the context of the cost of your future system. XT-1 has one clear advantage in a great, huge EVF which is fun to use. It is just like looking into a big TV screen with all info you need, compared to a tiny baby DSLR OVF.

If you go for a mirrorless, you will need some spare batteries, a mirrorless is much more power hungry than a DSLR. I use cheap third party batteries without any problems, you can get a couple for $15 , they work similar to the original ones.

WHOA! Thank you for the incredibly detailed and precise response of your answer. You have actually found the crux of the problem and I think I just made up my mind about what system to go for.

Sony has the superior camera (for the price) and a wider range of lenses but with Fuji having the better quality lenses (especially with such a good kit lens), I am SOLD on the Fuji. Someone else in the thread (forgetting who) reminded me I look long term and shop for lenses rather than for cameras so that's what I'll do: either a new Fuji X-T10 or a used/refurbished Fuji X-T1 will be what I'm getting I think.

Thanks.

One last bit of advice before you commit.

FUJI is quite special due to its unorthodox non-Beyer array X-Trans sensor, which some love and others are quite critical of. I think it is down to a personal liking/perception of color, detail, sharpness and other such things, that this sensor renders a little bit differently. It is hard to argue that FUJI approach is special. But "special" is not necessary best or even better. Some do not like it.

I personally have switched to FUJI because I LOVE FUJI colors. This is a company with a rich heritage going back to the film era when FUJIFILM had to compete with Kodak on the 35 mm film market. To compete they had to create their own different but coherent "color philosophy" and they have successfully transferred it to the digital era.

FUJI is also known for its great skin tones and spot on white balance if you shoot JPEGs. I often shoot JPEGs and sometimes find it difficult to match when converting RAW files. But not all RAW convertors do the best job with X-Trans files. If you are using Adobe you might want to reconsider, although they are becoming much better with X-Trans. I prefer Capture One Pro, it is excellent.

To sum up, FUJI is a system with a signature. Some love it, some prefer a neutral approach.

I would advice you to browse the internet, sites like X-photographers to see if you like the end result.
Amongst the reviewers I like Mansurov, he is a good pro and quite unbiased as far as I can see. Fuji X-T1 Review

 

[FrenchPapa]

I think if you want to switch from a beginner DSLR to mirrorless there are plenty of options. If you want to switch AND UPGRADE, there are only two at the moment: Sony a7 and FUJI X lines. (Three if we add Leica)

Both have great image quality. Sony a7 has the advantage of full frame, FUJI has superior lenses.

All you need is to decide if you really need a full frame system, what lenses are you going to buy for your camera and how much will it all cost. Both systems, if we talk about a camera plus 4-5-6 lenses, are not cheap.

I have never tried X-T10, but I have X-T1 which is similar. The image quality is exiting compared to beginners DSLRs, and the "kit" 18-55 lense is so good, it is just ridiculous.

35 mm is a great, great lense, highly recommended, 56 mm is top class, even small pancake 27 mm, if you want it light and compact for street shooting, is very good.
55-200 is a bit slow, but excellent as well and quite compact for its IQ. 10-24 is a very competent lense as well. I have switched from Nikon APS-C system and was amazed by FUJI XF lenses quality.

I do not know about Canon, but with Nikon I always felt (I do not state that it is indeed the case) like their APS-C lenses were intentionally dumbed down to encourage you to switch to FF lenses that are superb, but big, heavy and will cost you an arm and a leg. And a shoulder, if you carry it around all the time. FUJI do not produce FF systems , so they concentrate on top quality APS-C line that can compete with the best of Canikon.

You need to consider how much you will spend on lenses and whether the price difference between XT-1 and XT-10 is relevant is the context of the cost of your future system. XT-1 has one clear advantage in a great, huge EVF which is fun to use. It is just like looking into a big TV screen with all info you need, compared to a tiny baby DSLR OVF.

If you go for a mirrorless, you will need some spare batteries, a mirrorless is much more power hungry than a DSLR. I use cheap third party batteries without any problems, you can get a couple for $15 , they work similar to the original ones.

WHOA! Thank you for the incredibly detailed and precise response of your answer. You have actually found the crux of the problem and I think I just made up my mind about what system to go for.

Sony has the superior camera (for the price) and a wider range of lenses but with Fuji having the better quality lenses (especially with such a good kit lens), I am SOLD on the Fuji. Someone else in the thread (forgetting who) reminded me I look long term and shop for lenses rather than for cameras so that's what I'll do: either a new Fuji X-T10 or a used/refurbished Fuji X-T1 will be what I'm getting I think.

Thanks.

One last bit of advice before you commit.

FUJI is quite special due to its unorthodox non-Beyer array X-Trans sensor, which some love and others are quite critical of. I think it is down to a personal liking/perception of color, detail, sharpness and other such things, that this sensor renders a little bit differently. It is hard to argue that FUJI approach is special. But "special" is not necessary best or even better. Some do not like it.

I personally have switched to FUJI because I LOVE FUJI colors. This is a company with a rich heritage going back to the film era when FUJIFILM had to compete with Kodak on the 35 mm film market. To compete they had to create their own different but coherent "color philosophy" and they have successfully transferred it to the digital era.

FUJI is also known for its great skin tones and spot on white balance if you shoot JPEGs. I often shoot JPEGs and sometimes find it difficult to match when converting RAW files. But not all RAW convertors do the best job with X-Trans files. If you are using Adobe you might want to reconsider, although they are becoming much better with X-Trans. I prefer Capture One Pro, it is excellent.

To sum up, FUJI is a system with a signature. Some love it, some prefer a neutral approach.

I would advice you to browse the internet, sites like X-photographers to see if you like the end result.
Amongst the reviewers I like Mansurov, he is a good pro and quite unbiased as far as I can see. Fuji X-T1 Review

Thank you for all the wonderful advice. I just saw this review of the X-T10 this morning if that is of anybody's interest: Review Fujifilm X-T10

I have come to the conclusion that:
- I will get an X-T10 or X-T1
- I will keep my lenses and buy an adaptor
- I will sell my Canon T3i body.

 

[Solarflare]

Whow.

I really wonder if he'll be happy with the result of THAT arrangement.

 

[sashbar]

Whow.

I really wonder if he'll be happy with the result of THAT arrangement.

Agree, FUJI lenses play a big part here. One important factor is FUJI in-camera autocorrection when you are using FUJI lenses.
I would have at least bought the camera with the kit 18-55 mm f/2,8-4 to be able to feel the difference. Once you see it, I doubt you will want to go back to the consumer Canon/Nikon APS-C glass.