NEED HELP ASAP!!!

[aswiftakita]

I am in desperate need of help in figuring out WHY my photo's are ALWAYS so grainy lately! HELP!!!! I shoot in Raw and I have just recently set up my first online store but, no matter what or how I do it my photo's come out grainy. Am I editing too much? Am I shooting something wrong? Am I saving wrong? what's the best way to upload? LOTS of ?'s and need lots of help and FAST! I will attach 1 photo of many to show as an example... I have tried LOTS of ways to get this printed in an 8x10 size and any other size and it just comes out bad grainy. It's also grainy on the web! My online store will let me upload the RAW files for viewing and even they are grainy even in editing! UGH!!! How do I fix it!!??

 

[Tony S]

You're biggest problem is you are shooting a Canon 40D at ISO 1600 in a dimly lit arena with exposures that are barely able to stop movement. 1600 is pushing it for this camera model (it's the first level of ISO where the noise really becomes evident) and having shot in areas like this I would bet that in your processing you had to adjust the exposure/brightness up as they were likely still too dark. That is going to introduce more noise into the images than you started with. You are also processing the images with Canon's DPP which does not have a very good noise reduction program in it. ISO 1600 is workable with that camera but only if you get the exposure correct or even slightly over exposed, any underexposure is going to have quite a bit of noise in it.

In the case of the image you are showing you are really pushing the particular camera body you are using beyond what it is capable of.

Sometimes it takes $ to improve on equipment and/or software to get the job done.

 

[cptkid]

As above, high ISO & bad software for noise reduction.

 

[Derrel]

OMG...I downloaded the image and opened it with my EXIF viewer and thought, "Well, it's an EOS 40D at ISO 1600...looks about right for that body..."

Tony S lays it out right.

Yeah. It's got some noise, but it's tight, fairly fine, and not all "that" bad. I grew up on TRi-X pushed to 1600 in hot HC-110...crappy B&W with no real shadow detail...your photo by comparison looks pretty decent. And it's in COLOR!

 

[aswiftakita]

WOW!!! LOL, ok I have to ask... HOW on earth did you find or get all those settings??? Ok so here's my response... I use the DPP only because I "thought" since it came with it it would work best in editing the "RAW" part the best. For a bit, I thought it did pretty good now.... What software do you recommend? Please if you list some if you could also list some free to cheap ones to start with? maybe in order of free to expensive? lol, I do also have Adobe Photoshop and Corel Paint Shop Photo Pro as well.

As for the ISO at 1600 your right however, I quit shooting at 3200 ISO because I couldn't ever seem to get no grain from that either, granted when I did I wasn't as more familiar with more settings and being able to change them to fit as I am more now. Also, Does it help, hender or hurt to change the 'IN' camera setting for "sharpness" while shooting in RAW? From what I have read and found that it does NOT only because "RAW" is strictly information and not an actual image until saved in jpeg so that the "sharpness" would still have to be adjusted in software. Is this correct as well?

 

[480sparky]

WOW!!! LOL, ok I have to ask... HOW on earth did you find or get all those settings??........

It's called EXIF data. All sorts of stuff is encoded into the image file.

Camera Maker: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS 40D
Lens: EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
Image Date: 2013-05-24 09:09:50 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 155.0mm
Aperture: f/3.2
Exposure Time: 0.0050 s (1/200)
ISO equiv: 1600
Exposure Bias: none
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB
GPS Coordinate: undefined, undefined
Software: Digital Photo Professional

EXIF IFD0

Camera Make = Canon
Camera Model = Canon EOS 40D
Picture Orientation = normal (1)
X-Resolution = 350/1 ===> 350
Y-Resolution = 350/1 ===> 350
X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
Software / Firmware Version = Digital Photo Professional
Last Modified Date/Time = 2013:05:24 09:09:50
Y/Cb/Cr Positioning (Subsampling) = centered / center of pixel array (1)

EXIF Sub IFD

Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/200 second ===> 0.005 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 32/10 ===> ƒ/3.2
ISO Speed Ratings = 1600
EXIF Version = 0221
Original Date/Time = 2013:05:24 09:09:50
Digitization Date/Time = 2013:05:24 09:09:50
Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 499712/65536
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/197.4 second
Aperture Value (APEX) = 221184/65536
Aperture = ƒ/3.22
Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 155/1 mm ===> 155 mm
Maker Note = 0x1a,0x00,0x01,0x..................(MY NOTE: TONS OF THIS STUFF HERE IS PROPRIETARY INFORMATION FOR CANON SOFTWARE, I DELETED 98% OF IT)................................00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
User Comment Character Code = not defined
FlashPix Version = 0100
Colour Space = sRGB (1)
Image Width = 1936 pixels
Image Height = 1288 pixels
Focal Plane X-Resolution = 1936000/876 ===> 2210.05
Focal Plane Y-Resolution = 1288000/583 ===> 2209.26
Focal Plane X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
White Balance = auto (0)
Scene Capture Type = standard (0)
Unknown tag, Tagnum 0xea1d = data ===> 12

EXIF IFD1

Compression = JPEG compression (6)
X-Resolution = 350/1 ===> 350
Y-Resolution = 350/1 ===> 350
X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
Embedded thumbnail image:

EXIF Interoperability IFD

Interoperability Index = R98
Interoperability Version = 0100
Related Image Width = 1936 pixels
Related Image Length = 1288 pixels

EXIF GPS IFD

GPS Version ID = 0x02,0x02,0x00,0x00

 

[cgipson1]

WOW!!! LOL, ok I have to ask... HOW on earth did you find or get all those settings???

Exif data (metadata) embedded in the image. Any good Exif viewer can read it... here is an example:

[PhotoME]
PhotoME version: 0.79R17 (Build 856)

[Overview]
URL: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/.../48628d1372224051-need-help-asap-example1.jpg
File type: JPEG
File size: 1,312.6 KB
Creation date: 5/24/2013 09:09
Last modification: 6/26/2013 12:23
Make: Canon (Canon Global)
Camera: Canon EOS 40D
Lens: Unknown (Lens Id: 32767)
Software: Digital Photo Professional
Dimension: 1936 x 1288 px (2.5 MP, 3:2)
Focal length: 155 mm (equiv. 251 mm)
Aperture: F3.2
Exposure time: 1/200"
ISO speed rating: 2/4°
Program: Easy (Night)
Metering Mode: Spot
White Balance: Auto
Focus Mode: Off (Manual Focus)
Noise Reduction: Off
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

(EDIT: dang it... Sparky beat me to it!)

 

[The_Traveler]

I am in desperate need of help in figuring out WHY my photo's are ALWAYS so grainy lately! HELP!!!! I shoot in Raw and I have just recently set up my first online store but, no matter what or how I do it my photo's come out grainy. Am I editing too much? Am I shooting something wrong? Am I saving wrong? what's the best way to upload? LOTS of ?'s and need lots of help and FAST! I will attach 1 photo of many to show as an example... I have tried LOTS of ways to get this printed in an 8x10 size and any other size and it just comes out bad grainy. It's also grainy on the web! My online store will let me upload the RAW files for viewing and even they are grainy even in editing! UGH!!! How do I fix it!!??

Selling pictures?

 

[Designer]

If indeed you are selling pictures of the dog show, you really should strive to get the pose, background, light, and everything else better. The owner of this hound would most likely be looking for a more professional approach and better results.

You can get good photos using the camera you have, but you'll need to pose the subjects better and get more light on them.

 

[aswiftakita]

If indeed you are selling pictures of the dog show, you really should strive to get the pose, background, light, and everything else better. The owner of this hound would most likely be looking for a more professional approach and better results.

You can get good photos using the camera you have, but you'll need to pose the subjects better and get more light on them.

I never claimed my photo's were "PERFECT" and I am "selling" pics ONLY because ALL the people who "want" my pics keep asking me what I charge. I am by far NOT charging much of anything. $5.-$10. a photo actually. ANYWAY!!! These photo's are NOT "POSED" lol. You can't "POSE" a dog like that, lol. I don't POSE or try to get "better backgrounds and such" This is NOT studio settings or anything like that. They are "action/movement" shots. and yes This photo is one of the worst ones I have done or do. The point is I'm here to ask for help in fixing some of the problems I am having not to sit here and argue or debate the fact of whether of not what or if you like or agree with how the photo in a "Whole" is. Thank you though for your concern... As for the "light" LOL, GOOD LUCK on that one!!! You do NOT use flash at dog shows and you take what kind of "lighting" the arena gives and change your settings to fit if at all possible. YES!!! I know my "settings" need help... again that's why I'm here... I'm looking for help and mentors in helping me get better and NOT so that I can "sell" them but because I truely need and want help to improve.

 

[aswiftakita]

huh!!! Very interesting!! lol, only problem is the f is wrong... it was actually at 2.8... could that actually be a "misread" from the camera?

WOW!!! LOL, ok I have to ask... HOW on earth did you find or get all those settings??........

It's called EXIF data. All sorts of stuff is encoded into the image file.

Camera Maker: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS 40D
Lens: EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
Image Date: 2013-05-24 09:09:50 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 155.0mm
Aperture: f/3.2
Exposure Time: 0.0050 s (1/200)
ISO equiv: 1600
Exposure Bias: none
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB
GPS Coordinate: undefined, undefined
Software: Digital Photo Professional

EXIF IFD0

Camera Make = Canon
Camera Model = Canon EOS 40D
Picture Orientation = normal (1)
X-Resolution = 350/1 ===> 350
Y-Resolution = 350/1 ===> 350
X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
Software / Firmware Version = Digital Photo Professional
Last Modified Date/Time = 2013:05:24 09:09:50
Y/Cb/Cr Positioning (Subsampling) = centered / center of pixel array (1)

EXIF Sub IFD

Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/200 second ===> 0.005 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 32/10 ===> ƒ/3.2
ISO Speed Ratings = 1600
EXIF Version = 0221
Original Date/Time = 2013:05:24 09:09:50
Digitization Date/Time = 2013:05:24 09:09:50
Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 499712/65536
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/197.4 second
Aperture Value (APEX) = 221184/65536
Aperture = ƒ/3.22
Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 155/1 mm ===> 155 mm
Maker Note = 0x1a,0x00,0x01,0x..................(MY NOTE: TONS OF THIS STUFF HERE IS PROPRIETARY INFORMATION FOR CANON SOFTWARE, I DELETED 98% OF IT)................................00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
User Comment Character Code = not defined
FlashPix Version = 0100
Colour Space = sRGB (1)
Image Width = 1936 pixels
Image Height = 1288 pixels
Focal Plane X-Resolution = 1936000/876 ===> 2210.05
Focal Plane Y-Resolution = 1288000/583 ===> 2209.26
Focal Plane X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
White Balance = auto (0)
Scene Capture Type = standard (0)
Unknown tag, Tagnum 0xea1d = data ===> 12

EXIF IFD1

Compression = JPEG compression (6)
X-Resolution = 350/1 ===> 350
Y-Resolution = 350/1 ===> 350
X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
Embedded thumbnail image:

EXIF Interoperability IFD

Interoperability Index = R98
Interoperability Version = 0100
Related Image Width = 1936 pixels
Related Image Length = 1288 pixels

EXIF GPS IFD

GPS Version ID = 0x02,0x02,0x00,0x00

 

[The_Traveler]

You are up against a technical barrier here.
so it's either get a camera body that will support higher iso, use noise remover software or learn to live with it.

 

[aswiftakita]

So then your saying shoot at an ISO of 3200 in these kind of indoor convention centers? What "noise removing" software do you all recommend? I have had LOTS of photo's with no issues until recently... My next camera is a canon 7D... do you think this one can handle things better? Up until now, I have ALWAYS been told that this camera can do just fine to really good at doing these kind of photo's before as long as I had the right lens as well. well now I have the lens but now I need another camera... ugh...sorry... frustrated... Always being told I always need something "better" or what I have will work for what I am doing.

You are up against a technical barrier here.
so it's either get a camera body that will support higher iso, use noise remover software or learn to live with it.

 

[Designer]

huh!!! Very interesting!! lol, only problem is the f is wrong... it was actually at 2.8... could that actually be a "misread" from the camera?

How do you know the aperture was set to f/2.8? The EXIF comes from the image you posted. F/3.2. I and others have read it with our EXIF readers.

There are several noise-removal softwares available, and may be included with an editing program that will do other things as well.

For now, probably the best "fix" would be to add light. Do you have a speedlight?

 

[Big Mike]

Please if you list some if you could also list some free to cheap ones to start with? maybe in order of free to expensive? lol, I do also have Adobe Photoshop and Corel Paint Shop Photo Pro as well.

Photoshop can probably do whatever it is you need to do.

It's already been mentioned, but the key to controlling noise is using a low ISO...but just as (sometimes more) important is being able to nail your exposure...or even slightly overexpose the image. Then when you process/edit the image, you either don't have to adjust the brightness/exposure or you move it down a bit.
If you underexpose the photo, then have to make it brighter in post...you will get A LOT more noise than if you don't.

My next camera is a canon 7D

Hard to say. The 7D is a newer/better camera, but it also has a lot more megapixels crammed onto the same size sensor...which sometimes leads to more noise. I know a very good professional photographer who owns several cameras, including a 1Ds mkIII, but his favorite is actually the 40D.
Something like the 5D series (I, II or III) would be better, in terms of less noise at higher ISO, but they don't shoot as fast as the 40D or 7D, and the 5D I or II surely doesn't auto focus as well as the 7D or maybe even the 40D.