Need Lightting/Lens advice - Not an expert

[dedecv3]

As a side business I sell KOI fish on eBay. Although I dont think my photos are terrible I know I have a lot of room for improvement. Currently I have a Nikon D50 with the quantaray 28-50 lens & the "stock" flash. For extra lighting I use 5 shop light type lights with 100 watt bulbs(5000K color). I need to have more brightness & detail in my photos.

1st photo is one of my photos & the 2nd is another seller's of a very similar fish. As you can see their overall photo quality is better. Need some advice on some equipment thats not going to break the bank too bad.

 

[tirediron]

Pick up a couple of used flashes (Sunpak 555 or similar, or Vivitar 285) which can be had for <$50/each on flea-bay. Put the fish in a flat sided bowl/aquarium and have one light over top shooting down, and one at one end shooting in.

 

[Big Mike]

I might even try using just one flash (that you can put on your camera's hotshoe) but bounce it off of the walls & ceiling. The Nikon SB600 would be a good choice.

 

[dedecv3]

Pick up a couple of used flashes (Sunpak 555 or similar, or Vivitar 285) which can be had for <$50/each on flea-bay. Put the fish in a flat sided bowl/aquarium and have one light over top shooting down, and one at one end shooting in.

Unfortunately the aquarium is not an option. It is customary for them to be photographed against the blue background. Any other backgground is not really "professional" and the colors actually look best against the blue background.

 

[benhasajeep]

There are a few differences in your pic and the example. The example is using a direct light or flash from above. The fish is in shallow water but off the bottom. Can tell by the shadow being larger than the fish. The water level can be seen in the upper corner. Water will give a color cast, as well as a blue container. The more water that is on top the more it will affect the picture.

You don' thave to have fancy flashes for what you want to do. You could use 2-3 simple clip on lights with matching bulbs. Most light bulbs now a days comes with its temperature ratings on the package. 5,000k is basically daylight and would be a good choice to buy / use. But since your using digital you can adjust white balance to match the bulbs if you don't get 5,000k. Obviously a flash or two will work very good. But if your on a budget you don't have to have them.

I am guessing on your picture your white balance is off some. And it maybe be a bit under exposed. Both are probably caused by the blue container being used. Not so sure how much experience you have with your camera settings. There is a couple ways you can make changes. One is to shoot Raw (NEF on your D50) and adjust white balance later with software. Or you can chimp (look at picture on camera display) and take a sample pic look at its colors, and adjust white balance up or down accordingly with the camera WB settings. If you use the same set up all the time (same lights, same distances, same container, etc), you can probably write down the settings that work. And each time use those setting from then on. If anything just minor adjustments.

I missed you were using 5,000K shop lights. Might check your camera and try taking some pics with the White Balance set to Daylight. Then take a couple sample pics and if they look dark adjust your exposure for a longer shutter (can use exposure compensation), or jump over to manual mode and keep Aperature the same, but slow down the Shutter speed from the previous pic. Might want to switch over to center weighted metering. The all blue background is probably confusing the metering a bit.

If the color is off - adjust white balance. If its light or dark - adjust exposure.

Oh, Welcome to the forum.

 

[mwcfarms]

IIRC Bitter Jeweler did some koi fish pictures a while ago and they were on black. They looked great. I prefer the black over the blue tbh.

 

[dedecv3]

There are a few differences in your pic and the example. The example is using a direct light or flash from above. The fish is in shallow water but off the bottom. Can tell by the shadow being larger than the fish. The water level can be seen in the upper corner. Water will give a color cast, as well as a blue container. The more water that is on top the more it will affect the picture.

You don' thave to have fancy flashes for what you want to do. You could use 2-3 simple clip on lights with matching bulbs. Most light bulbs now a days comes with its temperature ratings on the package. 5,000k is basically daylight and would be a good choice to buy / use. But since your using digital you can adjust white balance to match the bulbs if you don't get 5,000k. Obviously a flash or two will work very good. But if your on a budget you don't have to have them.

I am guessing on your picture your white balance is off some. And it maybe be a bit under exposed. Both are probably caused by the blue container being used. Not so sure how much experience you have with your camera settings. There is a couple ways you can make changes. One is to shoot Raw (NEF on your D50) and adjust white balance later with software. Or you can chimp (look at picture on camera display) and take a sample pic look at its colors, and adjust white balance up or down accordingly with the camera WB settings. If you use the same set up all the time (same lights, same distances, same container, etc), you can probably write down the settings that work. And each time use those setting from then on. If anything just minor adjustments.

I missed you were using 5,000K shop lights. Might check your camera and try taking some pics with the White Balance set to Daylight. Then take a couple sample pics and if they look dark adjust your exposure for a longer shutter (can use exposure compensation), or jump over to manual mode and keep Aperature the same, but slow down the Shutter speed from the previous pic. Might want to switch over to center weighted metering. The all blue background is probably confusing the metering a bit.

Oh, Welcome to the forum.

Generally I shoot on Shutter speed priority at a shutter speed of 160 or 200. I will have to read my manuel and research the meter settings. I wouldnt mind purchasing a flash however when I take 200+ pictures at a time and usually pretty quickly since the fish are moving I would imagine I need a pretty good one. I've read recovery time on some of the $200-$300 ones is not good which isnt going to help me.

I generally try to only have an inch or less of water above the fish. Overall depth in the bowl of my photos is 3-4" at most usually. I am usually about 18-24 inches from the water when im taking the photos. I have 1 light about 4 feet above the water pointing straight down and 2 on each side pointing down at an angle about 2-3 ft above the water. Problem with that many lights is there is alway a reflection or glare on half the water surface which effects the photo if the fish is in hte wrong spot.

 

[benhasajeep]

If your in shutter priority. You can adjust your exposure by using exposure compensation. If you pick another shutter speed the camera will just move the aperature to a different setting to keep the same exposure. You not adjusting for exposure by just changing the speed. To actually change exposure you need to use exposure compensation. You can actually have the camera do it automatically for you every time. I think on the D50 it will do 3 frames with differnt exposures ( 1 under exposed, 1 what it thinks is right, 1 over exposed). Again can do this by a setting on the camera.

What I suggest is take a picture and see what the camera is telling you for aperature and what you have the shutter set at. Say f8.0 at 160. Go over to manual and leave your aperature at f/8 and adjust your shutter up or down until you get the the exposure right. When there is a overwhelming color in a picture, the meter can get fooled into the wrong settings. It picks what it thinks best for what its reading. Not foolproof though.

 

[dedecv3]

Would a Macro lens benefit me?? Also, the blue in the tub seems to get washed out a lot more than the colors in the fish. The blue is actually darker than what the pictures show.

 

[benhasajeep]

Would a Macro lens benefit me?? Also, the blue in the tub seems to get washed out a lot more than the colors in the fish. The blue is actually darker than what the pictures show.

No Macro will not help you other than it would be a better quality lens. The color is due to white balance being off ( I believe). If you camera has its white balance set to "auto" the majority blue scene may be causing it some issues. You can choose a white balance. I think the D50 its listed by condition - IE - daylight, cloudy, overcast, etc. If you have 5,0000k lights choose daylight. You may also need to move your current lights closer. Not sure how close they are.

How do the pics come out when you use your onboard flash?

 

[dedecv3]

Would a Macro lens benefit me?? Also, the blue in the tub seems to get washed out a lot more than the colors in the fish. The blue is actually darker than what the pictures show.

No Macro will not help you other than it would be a better quality lens. The color is due to white balance being off ( I believe). If you camera has its white balance set to "auto" the majority blue scene may be causing it some issues. You can choose a white balance. I think the D50 its listed by condition - IE - daylight, cloudy, overcast, etc. If you have 5,0000k lights choose daylight. You may also need to move your current lights closer. Not sure how close they are.

How do the pics come out when you use your onboard flash?

So the macro isnt going to give me better detail of the scales and color seperation on the pattern?

I am usually about 18-24 inches from the water when im taking the photos. I have 1 light about 4 feet above the water pointing straight down and 2 on each side pointing down at an angle about 2-3 ft above the water. Problem with that many lights is there is alway a reflection or glare on half the water surface which effects the photo if the fish is in hte wrong spot.

I use a combo of the 5 lights PLUS the onboard flash. If I dont use the flash the photos turn out really dark.

 

[benhasajeep]

So the macro isnt going to give me better detail of the scales and color seperation on the pattern?

I am usually about 18-24 inches from the water when im taking the photos. I have 1 light about 4 feet above the water pointing straight down and 2 on each side pointing down at an angle about 2-3 ft above the water. Problem with that many lights is there is alway a reflection or glare on half the water surface which effects the photo if the fish is in hte wrong spot.

I use a combo of the 5 lights PLUS the onboard flash. If I dont use the flash the photos turn out really dark.

Ok, I get it now. Basically your other lights are too far away to help that much. I thought maybe you had them fairly close. The light from them spreads out to much to be usefull from that distance. If you want to try something that is on the inexpensive side. Go get 2 of those clamp on lights that use a regular bulb. They useually have like a 7 to 9" silver reflector on them. Get 2 of the highest powered 5,000 watt CFL bulbs you can find. Clamp these lights fairly close to the bowl / dish you are using to take the shots. One on either side. And still use your flash.

Then you need to get a circular polarizer filter. This filter when turned propperly will get rid of the reflections.

If you look up Circular Polarizer pictures you should be able to find examples of what I am talking about.

 

[dedecv3]

I actually do already use the clamp lights. I just couldnt find anything stronger than the 100 watt bulbs in the 5000K color. I also have a circular polarizer but i didnt mess with it too much because it also seemed to make the photos turn out dark. Of course back when I got it I was only using the "auto" feature of the camera.

I'm going to take some photos tonight with the bulbs I currently have & using the tips you've given me and see if I can get some better photos. Will post the results on here later.

 

[benhasajeep]

I actually do already use the clamp lights. I just couldnt find anything stronger than the 100 watt bulbs in the 5000K color. I also have a circular polarizer but i didnt mess with it too much because it also seemed to make the photos turn out dark. Of course back when I got it I was only using the "auto" feature of the camera.

I'm going to take some photos tonight with the bulbs I currently have & using the tips you've given me and see if I can get some better photos. Will post the results on here later.

Yes, the polarizer will make the scene darker (will take up a couple stops of light deppending on how much you turn it). Moving the lights closer will be similar to using larger (higher wattage bulbs). If you can move them close enough that they are very bright. You might try a piece of sheer white fabric over the lights (if you can safely without fire hazard). Or even with napkin or white paper. This will difuse the light so you will not need the polarizer. Of course if you put something over the lights it will reduce their brightness. But difussing the light will work better than using a polarizer I would think. The bulbs probably stick out further than the light shade. So would need to make a smooth circular dome of you diffusion material. www.strobist.com might have some examples of this. If you have not been to that site. There is alot of good information on it pertaining to flash photography and inexpensive flash photography. A lot better than what I can teach / describe.

 

[dedecv3]

Ok, Just did a quick 5 minute photo shoot of 5 fish. Here are the changes I made:
*Moved lights 8-10 inches from water level instead of 3-4 feet.
*Changed white balance from flash to Sunlight
*Shot in Manual mode with an aperature range of 8-14 & a shutter speed of 160-200.

Here are the 4 test subjects:
***No editing was done to these yet except for cropping***

I need to find my circular polarizer yet and test with that. Overall though I think they look a little better than before. Might need to try to find a little bit darker blue bowl.