Need some advice. Going crazy comparing

[Gavjenks]

That's pretty assumptive on your part to judge someone like that even if you turn out to be right. You don't know the OP and have no idea how long it will or won't take them to get good images.

1) He seems to not be poor. He has a $1000 initial budget which is very reasonable and he explicitly said he is expecting to have more money soon. So it's fairly reasonable to expect him to want to upgrade camera bodies in the not-too-distant-future.
2) He is a human being, and unless he happens to be a photography savant, you can only learn a skill from zero so quickly.
3) The more naturally skilled you are at photography and the faster you learn, the more motivated you're going to be to want to upgrade sooner anyway.
4) The difference between the cameras at the same tier between Canon and Nikon are so slim that you have to really know what you're doing and have ALL the basics as second nature before you will be limited by the cameras' differences.

Combining these observations together, it seems extremely unlikely to me that the differences being discussed will actually end up mattering prior to the time when he wants to upgrade bodies anyway, rendering the issue irrelevant. Pretty much regardless of his individual qualities.

If the OP had indicated an extreme lack of money and implied that he would be holding onto his precious first camera for 6 years, then that might have changed things.
If the OP had said he wasn't a complete beginner, then that might have changed things.

But as is, this is a pretty safe bet.

 

[Gavjenks]

The sensor in the T5i is indeed slightly worse than the one in the D5200. However, it is a difference of about half a stop at most ISOs and across most variables considered, not nearly as much as is implied by DxO's ridiculous methods of calculating their summary "scores." Also, the OP is already aware of this difference between the cameras, and mentioned it in the first post of the thread.

Just like almost all of the pros and cons listed for both companies, half a stop more dynamic range or noise performance or whatever is fairly negligible in real life, and a BRAND NEW photographer is going to have much more accidental variability than half a stop anyway in his exposures and depth of field, etc. The difference is simply too slim to matter for the year or two of experience, most likely.

Whereas ergonomics and feel--which aren't really better or worse universally for either brand, but depend on personal preference--are going to make an immediate difference in the OPs photography, by motivating him to practice more or less and by making the exposure triangle more or less intuitive or easy to control, etc.

 

[kay1547]

DxO's scores seems to favor nikon, personally i don't trust it.
Their ISO range gives nikon a huge score, but when you see some real world side by side comparison, there is hardly any difference maybe half a stop at best.
what i like about the nikon is the dynamic range and high megapixels for cropping, the rest its all about the same.
if you learn to use it right, i think you'll enjoy the t5i with stm for video better. Forget about the autofocus and just manually half press the shutter button to focus when you need to. be sure to turn off the beep.

 

[Derrel]

The DxO Mark scores favor the cameras that have the better sensors. Period. I shot with a Nikon D2x and a Canon D5 for seven, and six years, respectively. Concurrently, using both cameras in the areas in which it was the stronger performer. I have extensively (as in EXHAUSTIVELY) compared the DxO Mark scores for those cameras, as well as the other models I have owned. The DxO Mark scores correlate well with the d-slr cameras I have owned and shot since the D1 back in 2001. My own,personal ownership of Nikon and three Canon d-slr bodies correlates with their test results. So...so sorry you're having cognitive dissonance and all, but...Fanboyism is not my problem.

It's true...Canon is STILL using its outdated .50 micron sensor fabrication technology, and Nikon is using Sony and Toshiba sensor made using newer, better, more-advanced .18 micron sensor fabrication technology.

As can be seen in the 70D versus D7100 "epic shootout" video, the Nikon easily betters the Canon in dynamic range. As can be seen in the DxO Mark ratings, Nikons beat Canon in low-light HIGH-ISO performance, they have better color depth and richness, and the Nikons easily have over two EV MORE dynamic range.

But Canon has those nifty touch screens!!! You can scream all you want, but the DxO Mark scores favor newer, better sensors over outdated, 2009-era sensors. Sorry kids...

A camera company can choose to either 1)make better cameras, or to 2)keep profits higher for itself... Nikon is doing the first, while Canon continues to do the second thing.

 

[Gavjenks]

DxO's scores seems to favor nikon, personally i don't trust it.
Their ISO range gives nikon a huge score, but when you see some real world side by side comparison, there is hardly any difference maybe half a stop at best.
what i like about the nikon is the dynamic range and high megapixels for cropping, the rest its all about the same.
if you learn to use it right, i think you'll enjoy the t5i with stm for video better. Forget about the autofocus and just manually half press the shutter button to focus when you need to. be sure to turn off the beep.

Right, thanks for reminding me. Here's an actual side-by-side image comparison of the D5200 and T5i, with real photos. Both from the RAW, with no editing, same aperture and focal length, same high ISO to show any noise differences:



Oh my God! The differences are blindingly huge! Oh wait, no, no. I got that wrong. They're actually nonexistent.

Even if I studied these for 5 minutes each, I'm not even entirely sure I could choose them correctly from a lineup compared to each other later on.

Differences this small simply don't matter, possibly not for ANYONE, but certainly not for a brand new newbie, who definitely will not have the consistency and precision to bring out differences that small (if there even are any to be found) in actual practice.

 

[Gavjenks]

Also Derrel, I'm pretty confused why you keep referring to comparisons between the 70D and the D7100, when the OP is asking about NEITHER of those two cameras. He asked about the D5200 and the T5i...

 

[Derrel]

Also Derrel, I'm pretty confused why you keep referring to comparisons between the 70D and the D7100, when the OP is asking about NEITHER of those two cameras. He asked about the D5200 and the T5i...

I pointed out the reasons: Canon has been re-issuing the SAME 18-MP sensor in five cameras since 2009; the "new" sensor in the 70D is a 20-MP creation made by adding 2-million photosites to a 2009 era sensor. The T4i and T5i use the SAME<tired,outdated, old-technology sensor. His first post made zero reference to which two cameras he was interested in, so I gave him a link to the Epic Shootout video between the 70D and D7100.

Your little image above...you kind of forgot something kiddo...you need to take the LARGER 24-megapixel D5200 image and down-size it to be as small as the Canon 18-MP shot. OR, you need to up-rezz the smaller Canon file to equal the larger 24-MP Nikon file, and then the noise advantage of the Nikon becomes much more clear. But, nice try with your Mickey Mouse logic, ignoring that basic normalization technique. Your Fanboy is showing!

it is so,so amusing to see all the excuses you can come up with for inferior performance in Canon's APS-C cameras!!! Hilarious! Again, look at the video moire issue in the Epic Shootout...yeah...look at the inferior dynamic range, and look at the inferior in0-camera HDR the canon has in that side-by-side test. It's odd how side-by-side tests show the inferior dynamic range of the Canon APS-C sensor cameras now that their sensor technology dates to the 2007-2008 R&D era. I know, it's difficult sometimes to admit that you've bought into the second-leading platform, and that there are better products from other manufacturers.

 

[JacaRanda]

Here is a link to several youtube videos that deal directly with the cameras you are interested in.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sea....7j1.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.5ktGg9XIWSM

Have fun. I agree with DAO- Happy Wife = Happy Life.
I also agree with Designer - If somehow you can swing it, get both If you become addicted, you will want your own. Then the issue of sharing lenses or not will come into play.

Happy Spending and enjoy the heck out of the new baby to come!

Bias towards camera brands does not exist...ever!

Oops, I am too late as usual.

 

[Gavjenks]

You little image above...you kind of forgot something kiddo...you need to take the LARGER 24-megapixel D5200 image and down-size it to be as small as the Canon 18-MP shot. OR, you need to up-rezz the smaller Canon file to equal the larger 24-MP Nikon file, and then the noise advantage of the Nikon becomes much more clear. But, nice try with your Mickey Mouse logic, ignoring that basic normalization technique. Your Fanboy is showing!

Why is that more appropriate?

Both are reasonable comparisons. The way dpreview does it is to compare equal sized portions of sensor in terms of physical dimensions. Which is a very real consideration, since physical sensor size is a big part of what you are paying for. if you're not going to use it all, then why shell out the big bucks for such a large sensor versus just getting a mirrorless or something?

If you do it your way, you're comparing per-pixel. Which is also fine, but you have to also point out if you do that that in order to see those lower noise results, you have to give up one of the other significant advantages of the D5200, which is its 24 megapixels. I.e., you can't get BOTH the megapixels AND the lower noise at the same time. You have to choose one or the other at any given time.

Whereas if you don't down-rez, then you aren't sacrificing the 24-megapixels feature, but you dcon't get the noise bonus, either.




As long as it's made clear that the down-rezzing comes at a very real cost of making the camera not as good in other dimensions, then either of the two methods is pretty equally fair, I'd say.

Personally, though, I find that the "equal physical portions of sensor" is the more real-life-relevant method of comparison, since the great majority of the time, people should be and are shooting with the intention of using their entire frame as the final image, not intentionally cropping down to 75% of the pixels as a premeditated decision. Therefore, this is the actual relevant comparison you would see between final images in most actual shooting situations.

 

[goodguy]

Wow another Canon vs Nikon

This almost never leads to a good place

First I will say this, both cameras are very capable for a newbie, either one you will get will make you happy.

Now I need to add I am a Nikon guy.

After I stated that let me tell you why I think you should get the Nikon d5200
The sensor of the Canon while still ok is simply old and it shows compared to the D5200, Dynamic range and low light capabilities are better and dont forget its got an extra 6MP on the Canon and while 18MP is quite enough 24MP is better.

And please choose a camera fast or my Nikon brother Derrel and Gavjenks will never finish their endless Canon vs Nikon "debate" :mrgreen:

 

[limr]

Going with the Canon t5i w/ 18-135 STM lens. Very excited to get started!

And please choose a camera fast or my Nikon brother Derrel and Gavjenks will never finish their endless Canon vs Nikon "debate" :mrgreen:

He already did many posts ago. Those two are just still measuring their lenses.

 

[goodguy]

Going with the Canon t5i w/ 18-135 STM lens. Very excited to get started!

And please choose a camera fast or my Nikon brother Derrel and Gavjenks will never finish their endless Canon vs Nikon "debate" :mrgreen:

He already did many posts ago. Those two are just still measuring their lenses.

Oh, I found it, so he went with the Canon.

Enjoy your new camera then.

 

[goodguy]

I would like to add one more then, where did you hear about Nikon bad service ?

I had problems with my D7000, I took it to their service centre, they were very nice and polite and I got my camera which was under warranty fast.
Had no complaint with their service.