Pentax K-x ...Nikon D5000 ... or ... Canon G11?

[FattyMcJ]

You won't know the difference till you spent some time behind a camera with a real prism viewfinder...

While this is true, the opposite is also true...if you don't know any better, does that make it bad? Sub-optimal, sure, but a no-brainer choice? No.

Just because it works for you doesn't make it the ideal. Part of the extra cost of higher end bodies is the brighter viewfinder... that's across the brands.

Indeed, I'll agree with that.

Simply put, to bias towards pentax because of their past history is just misleading. I am a pentax fan..... but their modern dslrs isn't up to par of what I would expect from them.

How is it misleading? Isn't that what MOST consumers do? Past experiences, reviews, etc. I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

If really want to compare sheer size, your kx is huge compared to my olympus and panasonic... and not much smaller than my leica.

Size yes, bigger than Olympus & Panasonic....but much better too.

If you want to compare ISO 3200 and high performance, Nikon and Canon has Pentax beat (and almost any other brand).

Apples to apples, no they don't. The T1i (same generation as the K-x) is sub-par according to most reviews done by 3rd party websites. The D5000 has the same sensor (as does the D90)...so that doesn't "beat Pentax" either. The T2i is actually inferior to the K-x and D5000. There IS a point at which more MP doesn't = better quality.

I always try to post honestly even being critical of cameras that I own myself. Don't take this the wrong way... enjoy your KX.

And for that, you are respected. Thank you, I will enjoy it! :mrgreen:

 

[usayit]

While this is true, the opposite is also true...if you don't know any better, does that make it bad? Sub-optimal, sure, but a no-brainer choice? No.

I'm sorry... that's just idiotic logic. Person asked whether or not the K-X or K-7 is better as a decision choice... it would be just plain dumb to recommend the suboptimal simply because the person wouldn't know any better.

If one of the primary reasons for using the camera is with manual focus lenses, then I disagree.. it is a no-brainer choice.




I've always been a pentax shooter... even I will admit they are behind the game and screwed up several years. They screwed up when the 645D was shelved several years ago. They had a chance to corner the market for an inexpensive MF digital.

 

[FattyMcJ]

I'm sorry... that's just idiotic logic. Person asked whether or not the Civic (K-x) or Porche (K-7) is better as a decision choice... it would be just plain dumb to recommend the Civic (suboptimal) simply because the person wouldn't know any better.

Would it? Should nobody drive Civics?

You're right, along your logic I should sell my Civic and run out and buy a Porche....right? Because my Civic is Sub-optimal. Oh wait...no.

See what I did there? No need to get personal, I'm just making a point.

If one of the primary reasons for using the camera is with manual focus lenses, then I disagree.. it is a no-brainer choice.

I'll agree with this....but who buys a MODERN DSLR for the specific purpose of MF only? The K-7 would make it "easier", but that's not to say the K-x isn't easy to begin with. It's a matter of good vs. better, not bad vs. good.

I've always been a pentax shooter... even I will admit they are behind the game and screwed up several years. They screwed up when the 645D was shelved several years ago. They had a chance to corner the market for an inexpensive MF digital.

I can't disagree with you there. There are lots of things I'd like to see Pentax do differently, namely advertising and branching out into the FF market...but that's a whole other topic.

 

[usayit]

Would it? Should nobody drive Civics?

Typical failed attempt at a straw-man-argument that has no foundation on which to build on. But heck.. I'm bored I'll follow along.

If someone asked which would make a better car on a track... and specifically mentioned CIVIC and PORSCHE, then you'd be an idiot to recommend the Civic on the idiotic notion that they may not know any better.

The poster didn't ask if they should by a K-X (Civic). They asked if they should buy a (Civic) or K-7 (Porsche). Considering that they are interested in using vintage manual focus lenses (drive on track), the obvious answer would be the K-7 (Porsche) because it serves their purposes better since it is equipped with a Prism viewfinder.


and its a straw man argument because arguing whether or not a Civic is worthy of a buyer's interest is an easier argument to win but has little to do with the discussion. Thus making a convincing argument that the Civic is worthy of a buyer's choice does not translate to a convincing argument that the K-X is a clearer choice over the K-7 in terms of use with manual focus lenses.

 

[usayit]

I'll agree with this....but who buys a MODERN DSLR for the specific purpose of MF only?

You need to open you mind and consider that not everyone is like you...

There are tons of people who do... I do (Leica M-mounts, M42, K-mount). MFLenses.com is an entire forum dedicated to it (although I don't like it there). Many of those MF lenses will put modern AF lenses to shame. Obviously the poster who asked about the KX versus K-7 also is interested in using MF lenses. Pentaxforums.com is also filled with people who do the same for Takumars and K-mounts.

 

[FattyMcJ]

If someone asked which would make a better car on a track... and specifically mentioned CIVIC and PORSCHE, then you'd be an idiot to recommend the Civic on the idiotic notion that they may not know any better.

So you're saying you'd send a 16yr old wanna-be (who wouldn't know any better) out on the Nürburgring in a Porche that can pull easily 200 mph, while the Civic (max 120) which is clearly the better/safer STARTER car sits on the sideline waiting for the noob to crash the porche?

Is it "idiotic" to suggest that the better option is not necessarily the best medium in which to participate?

You're saying you'd give a person that's got zero photo experience (not necessarily the OP, just in general) a K-7 and NOT expect them to be frustrated as hell with say, underexposed images, or plain flat dull images, but I'll be darned...they're in focus!

I'm not SAYING the K-x is the BETTER camera...I'm saying it's the better choice for a BEGINNER. It's a GOOD choice for ANYONE, but the K-7 is the BETTER camera.

The poster didn't ask if they should by a K-X (Civic). They asked if they should buy a (Civic) or K-7 (Porsche). Considering that they are interested in using vintage manual focus lenses (drive on track), the obvious answer would be the K-7 (Porsche) because it serves their purposes better since it is equipped with a Prism viewfinder.

Do you really think if a person has to ASK which is better, they are ready for "the best" ? C'mon.....again you put the 16yr old into a Porche and watch the failure happen.

and its a straw man argument because arguing whether or not a Civic is worthy of a buyer's interest is an easier argument to win but has little to do with the discussion.

It's not supposed to have anything to do with the discussion, it's called an analogy....an example to make the discussion a bit easier to understand. Being a car-guy myself, the car analogy was my logical choice. Apparently, the analogy wasn't effective.

a convincing argument that the K-X is a clearer choice over the K-7 in terms of use with manual focus lenses.

Again, you misunderstand my intent, maybe I didn't convey my point clear enough.

It's NOT Good vs. Bad = K-7 vs. K-x
It IS Good vs. Better = K-x vs. K-7

I fall back on the fact that the OP has to ASK which is better....which leads ME to believe that he doesn't NEED the "best" option, it's a waste until he's able to fully use it, THUS...the K-x, which is still a GOOD option for manual focusing (providing you do the focusing screen mod and your eyes don't suck) would be the better choice IN THIS CASE, for a beginner.

You need to open you mind and consider that not everyone is like you...

Fair enough, I'll open my mind. I ask that you do the same. Would you agree that someone asking which camera is better is probably not in NEED of the "best"?

I don't know if you have kids or not, but I sure as hell wouldn't put my daughter into a Porche for her first car....she'll be driving a '72 Buick if I have my choice. A big, safe, boat. Easy to drive, easy to learn. Then...she can upgrade when her skills get better.

There are tons of people who do... I do (Leica M-mounts, M42, K-mount). MFLenses.com is an entire forum dedicated to it (although I don't like it there). Many of those MF lenses will put modern AF lenses to shame. Obviously the poster who asked about the KX versus K-7 also is interested in using MF lenses. Pentaxforums.com is also filled with people who do the same for Takumars and K-mounts.

And now this is just a spitting contest. You win, good sir, you're absolutely correct. The K-7 is the superior camera in every possible way.

Good luck in your decision OP, happy shooting! :mrgreen:

I'm done. :waiting:

 

[usayit]

So you're saying you'd send a 16yr old wanna-be (who wouldn't know any better) out on the Nürburgring in a Porche that can pull easily 200 mph, while the Civic (max 120) which is clearly the better/safer STARTER car sits on the sideline waiting for the noob to crash the porche?

I'm not SAYING the K-x is the BETTER camera...I'm saying it's the better choice for a BEGINNER. It's a GOOD choice for ANYONE, but the K-7 is the BETTER camera.

The poster is not a beginner, he/she simply wanted to know whether the KX or K7 is better for manual focus lenses. Listen. the K7 is the BETTER choice over the KX for anyone of any skill level who intends on using manual focus lenses simply because it is equipped with a prism viewfinder.

btw... track racing was also an interest of mine. With proper training, maturity and supervision, I would have no problem putting a 16 year old on the track. On the street with a Porsche, probably not.

Its supposed to have anything to do with the discussion, it's called an analogy....an example to make the discussion a bit easier to understand. Being a car-guy myself, the car analogy was my logical choice. Apparently, the analogy wasn't effective.

Apparently you have no clue what a straw man argument is..

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It is obvious from your previous post that you have little experience and little interest with Manual focus lenses. So I suggest you listen rather than preach.