Photo Forum is Changing rant.

[D-50]

I've been a part of this site for about three years now, not too long but long enough to see a distinct change in the forums topics.
It seems now there are so many members asking "Imm new to photography what camera should I buy" or "these are my first pics what sdo you think" or "I have 6 months exprience and feel Im ready to start making money from photography how do I start".

There is nothing wrong with being new everyone is new to something at some point but I find the level of information and expertise is dropping rapidly at this point, members like Digital Matt or Big Mike who in the past gave great intelligent input have seemed to quiet down of late. I think Digital Matt is gone. There are so many shots up here that are mediocre at best yet get repsonses like "Great shot" or "I love it, I wish I could do that". Furthermore there are so many beginers asking about HDR and advanced post process, these people are not taking the initiative ti learn on there own (Books still do exist) and seem to want to jump ahead 10 levels in photography without learning the basics.

Because of this I feel there is giong to be/currently is a glut of unskille dphotographers selling themselves as "professionals" yet there skill is not even close to where it needs to be.
"I just learned off camera flash and LOVE these shots" yeah well you know what you seemed to have learned how to fire your flash remotely but overlooked the idea of correct exposed, diffusion of light, interesting composition, interesting setting, etc.
"Check out this night shot with light trails!!" Wow you learned how to use a long exposure but a shot of a street with light trials has beendone so much the trail is rarely interesting enough to be the sole subject of a photo yet you seem to think a shot of a road with a light trail is fantastic.

We all need to learn and things like long exposure and off camera flash are good things to work on but lets not praise people's sub par work.

Lastly there are so many people who join here wanting to make money off photography, I feel peopl are not looking at he artistic side of it. And I AM NOT talking about taking some B***SH** out of focus photos and calling it art because "I like the way this looks", Im takling about the emotion a photo can invoke.

Because of all this I am abandoning my desire to be a professional and am concenrtrating on creating the best photos I can for the love of photography and nothing more. No need for money all I want is to create a body of work that is impressive and not forced, not an attempt to become rich from taking pictures.

I know this past is all over the place and may not make too much sense especially the last part, but I would love to hear others opinions on the nature of this forum. Bottom line it seems to be newbs asking the same questions over and over again and getting decent answeres from the more intelligent members here, rarely are there threads that are great in depth discussions on topics that are suited to intermidiate to advnaced photographers.

 

[LaFoto]

D-50, this just happens with a growing forum such as TPF.

We're not a pro forum, we're open to anyone, and we try (I still try as much as I can, time permitting!) to both encourage newcomers to the hobby and point out their photographic flaws, which will be there when you are only new to the hobby. I try not to be discouraging, but I try not to say "Well done, keep it up" either, when a photo shows great potential to be made BETTER next time.

And if a newcomer to the hobby adds the little piece of information to their photos that those are the very first nighttime photos they have ever done, and they are sharp and well exposed, only the subject is a bit boring since they didn't know where to go for their first attempts, I'll always make it my task to point out that they are sharp and well exposed.

Like yourself, D-50, I take photos for the love of taking photos. Not to make money with them.
And like yourself I don't see where the idea in some comes from that they can professionally take photos when they barely know the basics.

And read my posts and you will find that I say so. Maybe shrouded in a bit of words, but I will say so.

Stay faithful: there still is some of the "crowd" around who don't say "Well done" about ANY piece of work presented here.

 

[Rachelsne]

and yet another rant about the same thing....

using the search button on this topic would show several threads on this very same topic.

Its threads like this that put me off coming on the forum

I always try and say something good and something to improve on when i comment on pictures.

 

[Alpha]

In a lot of respects the beginner threads consist of the blind leading the blind. My resilience has definitely worn down over time and It's happened to a lot of others who not long ago would have been perfectly happy to make such recommendations. At this point I feel the forum is reaching a critical mass of beginners, but things may turn around. Who knows.

 

[D-50]

I know there are similar threads to this one and its a result of the content ofn the forum. Lafoto you have been here for a while and you do give good constructive critism which is what makes this forum great.

Its the false praise people recieve that kills me. There are many talented photographers on this site and many who add value to the site and to other members but the forum itself is slowly turning to a beginer forum than anything else. 80% of the threads are related to what camera to buy which lens to use.

When someone writes a post about how they are giong to buy a D40 with the two kit lenses and take photos of their kids playing basketball or some other sport inside the gym the response should always be
"you need a faster lens for that the kit will not work"
but instead you get
"the D40 is a great camera I have had mine for a year and am thinking of starting a business at my high school taking photos of sporting events and selling them to parents and friends."

to me it seems the forum is slowly turning into a place where beginers are giving beginers advice and I do not think that helps anyone.

People like Jerry PH, Alpha, Mavs, Garbs, and couple more I cannot think of but there avatars are a chinese man, and a lady with ral spiky hair. These people are intellgent, sometimes biased, sometimes opinionated but that is good and what this forum needs. If a photo is poor than let it be said whether its a new photographers work or a seasoned pro. If you cant take harsh critism than maybe you should not post your work and ask for "C&C" I try to give advice on how to improve a shot but there is nothing wrong with saying a shot is junk if it indeed is.

 

[Alpha]

When keeping it real goes wrong.

We've all seen what can happen when you don't hand-hold.

 

[Overread]

all that happens is the old masters stop answering the questiosn and the new start answering - many are only out to help.
but yes we are getting a lot of these types of threads recently with "rants" by people.
Now I don't like attacking anyone but rants about more beginners really helps no one - infact these threads seem to generate nothing but continual comment by people stating that they have stopped helping people = which I think casts are very negative view of the forum as a whole. I think the best things if for people to liven up - accept that there has been change and if there are no "intelligent" threads then go out and make them


edit - beginners give beginners help because of a desire to help not out of one of giving misinformation - if there is a problem then there are 2 things to do
1) post and say what is wrong
2) stay quiet about it

the former is the best and the latter is not - you have to choose (the you in that not refrencing youD-50)

 

[Alpha]

Being a beginner at photography is no excuse for not having the capacity to use the search function, or Google, or reading a book from the local library.

It's open hands and unwarranted expectations that get my goat, not the request for help in and of itself.

 

[Overread]

but you are viewing the forum wrong - its not an encyclopedia its a room - or a building with many rooms and within them there are people.
Now when a person asks you a direct question its polite to answer if you know the answer - not to tell them to read a book. Further this is not a place where you are asked directly - its a quesiton shouted out for any to answer. Yes it can be rather boring answering the same question over and over but that is part of teaching new people and part of a forum like this (its even in the rules ) is teaching

 

[astrostu]

In a lot of respects the beginner threads consist of the blind leading the blind. My resilience has definitely worn down over time and It's happened to a lot of others who not long ago would have been perfectly happy to make such recommendations. At this point I feel the forum is reaching a critical mass of beginners, but things may turn around. Who knows.

Same here. I've written a few quite lengthy posts about print resolution, how to photograph the Moon, and one or two other things. What really got me was when I had just written a 5-paragraph explanation about print resolution and the very next day someone started a new thread asking the same thing. I feel bad saying it, but now I just post on those threads, "There's a 'SEARCH' button for a reason." It's an obnoxious reply, but there have been SO MANY OF those threads that it's obnoxious to post them again.

Or with the moon, I just copy and paste 2 pages from the guide I wrote.

But yeah, I've especially noticed this since about April of this year. Look at the TPF challenge for April and look at it for January ... not the thread with the photos, but the one announcing it. The number of irrelevant, "This sounds like fun," "I have so many ideas," "This'll be cool," comments has increased so much in just the last few months.

As to the so-so photos masquerading as art, I skip 'em. If the title sounds interesting, I may click, look for half a second, then go away. 90% of the photos these days seem to be snapshots that were just taken and the person thought they looked like "art" and posted them. I don't reply to those threads because I'm afraid of what I might say. People need to make use of the "Snapshots and Bloopers" section instead of posting in the "General Gallery." To me, a "Gallery" should have photos that you actually took time in making, you planned out, or you got really lucky (like a heron flying by, or a hawk catching a rabbit).

If I post a photo, it's because I've spent quite a bit of time on it, or it's because I was trying out a new technique and I'd like feedback. But they were PLANNED and I worked hard on them and I actually weeded through a few dozen shots to maybe post the 6 best.

 

[Rachelsne]

you know another thing is I comment on other photos its because I want to receive help and comments on my photos and comenting and looking for flaws in others pictures helps me learn but as a newb i get bashed for posting coments that are not good enough.
then as beginner if I only posted my pics and didn't but input on other photos I would be frowned upon too....
no win situation for the beginers

 

[D-50]

I think the best things if for people to liven up - accept that there has been change and if there are no "intelligent" threads then go out and make them

I agree unfortunatly those threads get buried under "what is a good all round lens" or "how do I get this look"

And like Alpha says the really intellgent people get worn down quickly and stop coming to the site which hurts everyone. It would be great if all new posts asking what camera to buy would be immediatly shutdown. When I bought my first camera I did the research on my own. I read review after review, talked with the people at the camera store, held and shot different cameras. I din't just log on and throw out a question like I am debating between camera x and camera y which should I get.

On the same level if you do have a question about a lens dont jus ask "What lens is a good all around lens" do some research first and then come to the table with some amount of knowledge i.e
"I want a new lens that is fast and covers a decent focal range say 18-70mm roughly. I am looking at the sigma, tokina, and nikon lenses and have checked them out at my camera store. I found the Tokina to be a bit light and cheap feeling, the nikon was great but expensive and the sigma seemed like a good value but I am hesitant to use a third party lens, does anyone have specific experience with these lenses are the sigma and tokinas sharp throught out or do they fall of at points. Is the nikon worth $300 more or am I just paying for a name."
That is a well phrased quesion that shows the OP has put thought into his/her situation and is not coming to the forum first but rather after he has done his homework and still has a coulpe questions"

And yes Alpha is MaxBloom

 

[Rachelsne]

Being a beginner at photography is no excuse for not having the capacity to use the search function, or Google, or reading a book from the local library.

It's open hands and unwarranted expectations that get my goat, not the request for help in and of itself.

using google to find out about certain words is how i stumbled across this site

I have always struggled with reading books unles they are visual and full of pictures-thats just how I am, I have rented all the books form my library and I buy phot mags to help me learn

I do agree that people need to use the search function on this site too though.

 

[Overread]

As to the so-so photos masquerading as art, I skip 'em. If the title sounds interesting, I may click, look for half a second, then go away. 90% of the photos these days seem to be snapshots that were just taken and the person thought they looked like "art" and posted them. I don't reply to those threads because I'm afraid of what I might say. People need to make use of the "Snapshots and Bloopers" section instead of posting in the "General Gallery." To me, a "Gallery" should have photos that you actually took time in making, you planned out, or you got really lucky (like a heron flying by, or a hawk catching a rabbit).

If I post a photo, it's because I've spent quite a bit of time on it, or it's because I was trying out a new technique and I'd like feedback. But they were PLANNED and I worked hard on them and I actually weeded through a few dozen shots to maybe post the 6 best.

I always take issue with this point - the only time you CAN tell that a shot is a snapshot is when the OP directly says "this is a snapshot" without that claim you cannot tell if they spent 1 second or 1 hour taking a shot. Yes it might be snapshotty to you or to others, but to them it might be the best that they can do (or at least think they can do). Advice and education is the only way that they will be able to change for though we can see some errors in our own work we cannot often see all the errors until you are experienced - so it is up to other to help.
If you don't want to help or post that is fine - this is a free forum and you are not obliged to answer - but continual posts saying that you won't or that people won't help is not really helping the community at large - it makes those after direct help feel discouraged - as Rachel said - and gives a bad air.

*ps not directing this at you astrostu but at the view point itself*

 

[astrostu]

When I bought my first camera I did the research on my own. I read review after review, talked with the people at the camera store, held and shot different cameras. I din't just log on and throw out a question like I am debating between camera x and camera y which should I get.

Same here. I've never asked what camera I should buy on this forum, I've always done my own research, read the reviews, looked at features, etc.

Now, lenses are a different issue for me. I think I've made two lens threads, one where I was asking what my long-term lens-buying plan looked like (basically if I was leaving anything out that folks thought was a "must-have" lens) and another asking for advice on which lens I should buy this year vs. next year based upon my intended purpose (this thread was slightly superfluous, though, I'll admit).