Question about RAW images.....

[Wizard1500]

When i upload a RAW image, using View NX2, what should I expect the image to look like, as compared to a Fine JPEG? Please keep in mind that I am new to digital.....
The reason I ask, is that I did just that this morning....I then opened the raw image in LightZone, and played around with it some.....I'm just not sure about what I should be seeing.....TIA for your help.....

Carl.....

 

[Forkie]

Upload it to where?

 

[Msteelio91]

RAW images may be more "dull" looking than a JPEG image. A JPEG straight out of the camera has already been processed for color, sharpness, etc. Whereas a RAW image file has not been processed at all and is simply the recording of light that hit your camera's sensor in it's entirety. This allows you to pull out the colors you want and refine the image more-so than you could with a JPEG, since JPEGs are limited in depth and data compared to a RAW file.

Hope that helps

 

[Wizard1500]

To my pc.....

 

[Wizard1500]

RAW images may be more "dull" looking than a JPEG image. A JPEG straight out of the camera has already been processed for color, sharpness, etc. Whereas a RAW image file has not been processed at all and is simply the recording of light that hit your camera's sensor in it's entirety. This allows you to pull out the colors you want and refine the image more-so than you could with a JPEG, since JPEGs are limited in depth and data compared to a RAW file.

Hope that helps

Thanks, that tells me exactly what I wanted to know....I feel better, as that's exactly how the image looked on my test, this morning....Thanks, again.....

 

[Msteelio91]

Sure thing! There are some great tutorials on youtube for processing RAW files. It really lets you get down to a granular level and make the photo the way YOU want it. Rather than leaving it up to presets.

 

[KmH]

Contrary to popular belief Raw images are indeed processed.
They have to be processed because a Raw file is not a photo.

If you open a Raw file using different Raw applications you will see that they all look a bit different because each Raw application does somewhat different processing.

A Raw file is not simply a recording of the light that hit your image sensor.
The image sensor light sensing areas -pixels/sensels - aren't digital , they are analog devices.
Here is another fact not commonly understood about image sensor pixels in a digital camera - they cannot record color.

 

[Msteelio91]

Contrary to popular belief Raw images are indeed processed.
They have to be processed because a Raw file is not a photo.

If you open a Raw file using different Raw applications you will see that they all look a bit different because each Raw application does somewhat different processing.

A Raw file is not simply a recording of the light that hit your image sensor.
The image sensor light sensing areas -pixels/sensels - aren't digital , they are analog devices.
Here is another fact not commonly understood about image sensor pixels in a digital camera - they cannot record color.

I was bringing it down to basics since he's completely new to digital. Though I was not aware they cannot record color. If that is the case I'd be interested to see how color is interpreted or "extracted" from the data.

...but that's for another thread

 

[Ysarex]

Contrary to popular belief Raw images are indeed processed.
They have to be processed because a Raw file is not a photo.

If you open a Raw file using different Raw applications you will see that they all look a bit different because each Raw application does somewhat different processing.

A Raw file is not simply a recording of the light that hit your image sensor.
The image sensor light sensing areas -pixels/sensels - aren't digital , they are analog devices.
Here is another fact not commonly understood about image sensor pixels in a digital camera - they cannot record color.

I was bringing it down to basics since he's completely new to digital. Though I was not aware they cannot record color. If that is the case I'd be interested to see how color is interpreted or "extracted" from the data.

...but that's for another thread

The OP seems happy so we can answer that here.

As Keith noted the sensor produces an analog signal. Think Photovoltaic cell = photons in, electrons out. The electronics in the camera convert that analog signal to digital data. We talk about A/D conversion and often refer to the camera electronics that do this job as the A/D converter. A raw file does not store the analog signal it stores the result of the A/D conversion and so it is of course digital data. You can look at it in "photo" form and it'll look like this:

Actually I've lightened that a little for illustration otherwise it'll be even darker. The color is there in the form of a Bayer array that sits in front of the sensor. As Keith noted the sensor itself is not color capable. The Bayer array is a raster of red, green and blue filters. Here's a 400% of a section of the above image where you can see the array. The image looks overall green because there are two green filters for every one red and blue filter.

Demosaicing a raw file is the process of interpolating the color in the photo from the Bayer raster. This is done by a raw file converter for example LightZone that the OP is using. Lots more needs to be done by the raw converter including white balance, sharpening, noise filtering and tone normalization to get this:

When a raw file is first opened in a raw converter like LR or LZ all of that has to be done up front or you'd end up seeing the first image above which would be disconcerting to most folks. When a camera saves a raw file it embeds a JPEG in the file. Most raw converters will display that embedded JPEG as a preview image. LZ does this and so when the raw file is opened for processing you're often going to see a discrepancy between the embedded preview JPEG and the raw converter's default rendition.

Joe

 

[Overread]

Some further points;

1) The embedded JPEG in a RAW is what you see on the back of the camera LCD. Thus if you are using the histogram to review your exposures its important to keep in-camera editing to neutral/faithful settings as that way you get a more true appearance of what the RAW histogram and exposure will look like (were as otherwise your in-camera editing might be making the histogram display a result that is significantly tweaked from the original).

2) RAW photos have sharpening applied as default in RAW converters. This is typically called capture sharpening and is used to provide a basic level of sharpening from which its much easier to pick the sharp from the soft photos; it also makes for a much easier photo to work with for the photographer. This trumps the general advice that sharpening be the last stage of your editing process.
If you experiment and disable the capture sharpening you'd see a very significant drop in the photo.

3) RAW processing software does work similarly, but with slight differences. In most practical terms though the differences are marginal at best. Furthermore the nature of their different working setups means that they will each work better in some areas of others, however the nature of photos are such that you can't shoot with these areas in mind (its just not practical nor really feasible).
Most photographers work with just one option (remembering that lightroom and Photoshop use the same software behind the scenes).

 

[KmH]

Not all Raw converters apply sharpening.
Differences between Raw processor applications can be substantial.
For a time back in the day, Adobe Camera Raw (ACR - Camera Raw and LR Develop module) did some sharpening in the Raw file processing, but stopped doing so several versions back.

Capture sharpening is done by the user using the Raw processor software.
User sharpening is best done as a 3 stage process - capture sharpening in the Raw processor, artistic/local sharpening using a raster image editing application, and output sharpening based on the media used to show the image.

Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom (2nd Edition)

Bayer filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Demosaicing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Active pixel sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gamma correction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Wizard1500]

......

When a raw file is first opened in a raw converter like LR or LZ all of that has to be done up front or you'd end up seeing the first image above which would be disconcerting to most folks. When a camera saves a raw file it embeds a JPEG in the file. Most raw converters will display that embedded JPEG as a preview image. LZ does this and so when the raw file is opened for processing you're often going to see a discrepancy between the embedded preview JPEG and the raw converter's default rendition.

Joe

Joe, just to make sure I understand, LZ is converting the raw image when I open the image....right?....and then, it's just a matter of making some "adjustments" until I have the image I want......I understand printing b&w and color in a darkroom from film, but all this is new to me....I really appreciate the help.....

Carl.....

 

[Ysarex]

......

When a raw file is first opened in a raw converter like LR or LZ all of that has to be done up front or you'd end up seeing the first image above which would be disconcerting to most folks. When a camera saves a raw file it embeds a JPEG in the file. Most raw converters will display that embedded JPEG as a preview image. LZ does this and so when the raw file is opened for processing you're often going to see a discrepancy between the embedded preview JPEG and the raw converter's default rendition.

Joe

Joe, just to make sure I understand, LZ is converting the raw image when I open the image....right?....and then, it's just a matter of making some "adjustments" until I have the image I want......I understand printing b&w and color in a darkroom from film, but all this is new to me....I really appreciate the help.....

Carl.....

Like most converters LZ starts by showing you the embedded JPEG preview that was generated by the camera software. Even when you select an image in the LZ browser the enlarged version you first see is the embedded JPEG preview. It's only when you click on Edit that LZ then opens, demosaices and default processes the actual raw data. At that point you see the image histogram in the upper right corner and the Raw Adjustments panel open. You are then in the drivers seat and how that photo will finally appear is up to you. When you're ready go to the File menu and select Convert Image to generate your output file.

I'm off to work now for the rest of the day but I can help with LightZone later -- good software.

Joe

 

[Wizard1500]

Thank you so much....that makes a lot of sense.....it's exactly what I'm seeing.....and thanks to everyone that responded to this thread....very educational.....

 

[WayneF]

Joe, just to make sure I understand, LZ is converting the raw image when I open the image....right?....and then, it's just a matter of making some "adjustments" until I have the image I want......I understand printing b&w and color in a darkroom from film, but all this is new to me....I really appreciate the help.....

Carl.....

"making some adjustments" is sort of right, but there is more philosophy to raw.

For example, you can shoot JPG images, and then you choose your settings (like white balance, contrast, color profile like Vivid, sharpening, etc), and specifically, you adjust those settings in the camera, before you take the picture. Or maybe before you arrive at the scene. Or maybe last year when you bought the camera. Or maybe you don't even have any idea what all settings are set in there. But for JPG, the camera will process and implement those settings on every image you shoot, until you change the settings. Saying, there are settings that you can control, in the camera, before you take the image. The camera processes the sensors Raw image and creates a JPG file.

Or you can output Raw, and none of the camera setting are applied to Raw, because, well because Raw is raw, meaning not processed. Maybe like buying raw chicken from the supermarket, instead of buying fried chicken from KFC (just meaning, if you care enough to prefer to make your own final choices about processing, after you have actually seen the picture). Of course, then you still have the same concerns about adjustments (like white balance, contrast, color profile like Vivid, sharpening, etc), and can also correct exposure to some degree, but the difference is that now you decide the settings AFTER you can SEE the actual image, and then you KNOW what it needs to look like you wish. Smart adjustments, not sight unseen.

But Raw does mean unprocessed, and processing will be required.