Ranting

[Taylor510ce]

Ok.. not to fuel the fire of a thread I'm sure will take forever to die...

But here's a question:

Can a person be highly skilled, present themselves and their work with professionalism, but provide their services for free and still be considered a professional?

Absolutely!

Because professional means highly skilled, being an expert at what you do.

I am so confused!
I thought it meant you get paid to do something with no regard to skill.

**pats bitter on the head** it can mean whatever you want it to mean lil fella
:lmao:

 

[SrBiscuit]

yeah you gots to pay to get V's girthy meat.

 

[Aayria]

Ok.. not to fuel the fire of a thread I'm sure will take forever to die...

But here's a question:

Can a person be highly skilled, present themselves and their work with professionalism, but provide their services for free and still be considered a professional?

Absolutely!

Because professional means highly skilled, being an expert at what you do.

ooo I missed that post somewhere between the meat and the random you-tube songs! ...or was that the other thread?

I concur with KmH!

 

[Village Idiot]

yeah you gots to pay to get V's girthy meat.

You make me sound like a hooker.

 

[SrBiscuit]

im yo pimp, *****.
you got my money?

 

[Village Idiot]

im yo pimp, *****.
you got my money?

:er:

 

[Taylor510ce]

Because professional means highly skilled, being an expert at what you do.

You are a very knowledgeable person in terms of photography, so I mean no disrespect by saying this, but you are really distorting the facts. You are twisting it to your own meaning. If you have never been paid for your services, you are not a pro. Plain and simple. You can conduct yourself in a professional manner ( meaning LIKE a pro which would be in reference to acting like someone whos livelihood rests on their reputation, abilities and integrity ) but until you get paid, you are a very skilled amatuer. That is why skill level and character typically are synonymous with being labeled professional, because at that point its not just for fun, you either perform or your business suffers. You act like a jerk, your business suffers.

Furthermore, if your definition were true, it just perpetuates the confusion that started this thread. Who would decide when you were skilled enough to call yourself a pro? Some jury of photographic elders? You would have MORE photogs assuming they were pro at that point, not knowing if they are or arent. It wouldnt make sense. Its not logical.

 

[Taylor510ce]

Also, to further illustrate the point, if someone asks you " what is your profession" would you say your dayjob, or would you say photographer? If you answered "photographer" and had never been paid for it, you would be out of touch with reality. Sure at any point you could do charity work for free. If my buddy who is a pro mason builds me a brick wall for free, he is still a pro.

 

[Neil S.]

There is one of these threads like every week now...

 

[Neil S.]

"Using L lenses does not make me an elitist. It just makes my pictures better than yours. "

LOL

 

[CNCO]

I agree mommy! Once someone buys all this gear it doesnt mean anything. If someone buys a lot of gear and acts as if they know what they are talking about - true poser.

On the other side it could be someone with a new hobby or passion trying to learn on a forum instead of taking a class at a local college.

 

[SrBiscuit]

im yo pimp, *****.
you got my money?

:er:

alright alright.
keep the money.
and sorry i called you my *****.:hugs:

 

[pgriz]

Ya know, that’s the problem with the English language – a single word carries multiple meanings, the context determining the meaning meant. Take things out of context, and now you can impose whatever context your mind wants to. So…

Dictionary.com lists 13 meanings under “Professional”. Two of these talk about earning money; two also talk about being “expert” or “knowledgeable (consultant/trainer)”. So, one can be a “professional” in the sense of earning money, but not necessarily being good at it. AND, one can be a “Profession” in the sense of being very good at something but not necessarily earning money at it. However, ideally a “professional” should be good at it as well as earning money.

When it comes to earning money, there are various levels as well: “beer money”, “supplemental income”, “primary income” and “profitable enterprise”. The level of money-making depends on marketing, selling (the art of making a ridiculous price appear reasonable), cost-control, execution, and post-sale support. These are the realm of the business-person, and unfortunately often the technical skill set of the practitioner (photographer, plumber, personal trainer, financial advisor, etc.) is overshadowed by other attributes. Therefore, calling someone a “professional photographer” tells me nothing other than they made some money at it.

Given that the market for any service is usually woefully ignorant about the service, the standards, and what is involved, (if you doubt this, think about the “dreamy” photographs that some wedding party is gushing over, some expensive but cheaply-built home that the buyers think will appreciate 100% per year, some “investments” that appear almost too good to be true, and TV-order knives that will stay sharp after sawing through industrial I-beams&#8230. So just because someone sold something to someone else… doesn’t mean it’s good, or worth it.

So much for being good just because you got someone to pay for it.

Moving right along to the other meaning, where someone is a “professional” because of their knowledge, ability and results, doesn’t mean that they need to be making money at that activity to be called “professional”.

In the ideal world both meanings would reside in the same person. In the real world, maybe yes, and maybe no. Caveat emptor.

 

[Taylor510ce]

doesn’t mean that they need to be making money at that activity to be called “professional”.

In the ideal world both meanings would reside in the same person. In the real world, maybe yes, and maybe no. Caveat emptor.

They dont need to be paid in order to exude professionalism, but if they want to accurately call themselves a photographic professional, they do. Whether its working for jcpenney photo studio, national geo, or shooting weddings. Skill is not the difference between PROFESSION and HOBBY, COLD HARD CASH IS.

I chose this quote because I want to challenge anyone who supports this theory to find me ONE example of this in the real world. I mean where a large amount of people consider a person a professional who has never gotten paid from their profession and are not aspiring to ( ie. Business owner who has yet to make his first profit.). I have listed several of factual, real world examples, so either put up or shutup. I will list another just for good measure. A housewife bakes pies at home for family gatherings. This is a hobby, a labor of love if you will. She takes that SAME exact pie and skills, and sells them mail order, or opens a shop to sell them, and she is now a professional pie maker/baker etc. . Keep in mind " I consider him professional" and " I consider him A professional" are two different things. That "A" can really mess you up.

 

[Gaerek]

doesn’t mean that they need to be making money at that activity to be called “professional”.

In the ideal world both meanings would reside in the same person. In the real world, maybe yes, and maybe no. Caveat emptor.

They dont need to be paid in order to exude professionalism, but if they want to accurately call themselves a photographic professional, they do. Whether its working for jcpenney photo studio, national geo, or shooting weddings. Skill is not the difference between PROFESSION and HOBBY, COLD HARD CASH IS.

I chose this quote because I want to challenge anyone who supports this theory to find me ONE example of this in the real world. I mean where a large amount of people consider a person a professional who has never gotten paid from their profession and are not aspiring to ( ie. Business owner who has yet to make his first profit.). I have listed several of factual, real world examples, so either put up or shutup. I will list another just for good measure. A housewife bakes pies at home for family gatherings. This is a hobby, a labor of love if you will. She takes that SAME exact pie and skills, and sells them mail order, or opens a shop to sell them, and she is now a professional pie maker/baker etc. . Keep in mind " I consider him professional" and " I consider him A professional" are two different things. That "A" can really mess you up.

There's a chance you've missed what he's trying to say. Maybe you didn't. This is a debate over semantics. When someone says, "He's a professional basketball player," the first thing most people think of is, "Wow, he must be really good!" Not, "He makes money playing a sport!" Yes, he makes money playing basketball. Yes, he is good at it. The term invokes images of both.

Now, I tend to agree with you, that a professional, in the strictest sense, is someone who is paid to do whatever he's a professional at. BUT, for most people, the term professional invokes images of skill, not money. I do agree, there are plenty of examples where a professional has subpar skills, and there's few, if any, 'professionals' who make no money doing what they do. But this is all semantics. Because of how our language works, we have no word for people who are very good, but don't make money doing what they do. The word amateur is inadequate because it simply means, "does not make money doing this." In this case, the word professional, although not perfect, at least invokes the image of someone with skill. Until we have a better word for it, professional might just be the right word for the job.

I think I'm at the point of rambling now, but I hope it all makes sense. Basically, this is an argument over semantics. The word means both, and can (and will!) be used interchangably with regards to skill and getting paid.