See you on the flipside!

keith204 · Jun 17, 2008

Lately I have unintentionally taken a break from TPF. I've been shooting more, I've been wasting more money on equipment, etc. I came back here to post some photos for C&C in the galleries. <<<That's the good stuff right there.

Maybe my assumption is wrong, but I would assume that members of this forum are here because we want to learn how to be better photographers. However, with some of the topics started lately, it seems that TPF is beginning to be a lounge for photographers who are content with their limited expertise. If you could care less about getting better as a photographer, stop here and don't read any more.

I hope this is more inspirational than a rant, as we've had our fair share of those the past few days. All I'm saying is get off your butt, go shoot, post in the galleries, and accept some good harsh C&C and learn from it.

While you're at it, hang around the galleries for awhile, and give C&C to the users posting photos there. That's another way to learn a lot. As you give C&C, you develop your opinions on photographic styles and techniques...and you're helping somebody else.

Try something new...a new style, a new piece of gear, a new technique. I have 2 40D's and finally a piece of L glass & several other nice lenses. Never used a film SLR. But, today my brother-in-law sent me his EOS ELAN II. What fun! I went out and got some B&W film for it. Figured out how to install the film, and I think it works. Hooked up my 50 1.4 to it and had a blast just figuring the thing out. So far I've only taken one picture with it...pretty weird, because I have no clue what that shot looks like, and won't know until it gets developed! The suspense is sweet, and the thrill of trying something new is exhilarating. I can't wait to post shots to the galleries from "my first roll of film".

Anyway, that's where I am at...there's my vow to spend more time posting photos and C&C in the galleries, than I spend in Foundations of Photography.

Why did I get wrapped up in this? I notice that if a user submits a pointless thought or question in Foundations, they get 50+ replies instantly. However, in the galleries, sometimes posts go without replies at all, and that's where the replies are most needed, and most valuable.

Senor Hound · Jun 17, 2008

Sometimes I'm afraid to critique a photo cause I don't know what I'm doing and I'm afraid I'll give BAD advice. I try to give some to as many as I can, but most of the photos here are really good. And a lot of the things which are the most comment-able (pp, composition), are things I'm not the best at.

I can say I've learned more on here looking at other people's photos and seeing the comments, than I probably would shooting myself. I haven't been out in a while, and I went back to look through some of my older photos and found some with potential that I thought were bad when I took them.

I disagree about the harsh thing, though. You can critique effectively without being harsh. I'm not saying to sugar coat, but when someone says that a photo is a "throw away," or that nothing works in it, that's not helpful.

LaFoto · Jun 17, 2008

Everyone keep in mind that anything that's being said here is always and exclusively an opinion. Any kind of critique, no matter how harsh or how sugar-coated it might be, is the subjective thought of the poster. And as much as you may decide which of your photos to showcase for public opinions, as much it is your freedom to choose from the replies.

If you're convinced you're posting a masterpiece for all of us to see and appreciate, and there's one or more who say "Bah! This is only just a snapshot", then dismiss that thought. No one's watching you while you read the replies.

Don't let negative critique get to you. Take them all with the necessary grain of salt.

If some poster's not-so-positive way of seeing your photo, however, touched a sore point inside you, if you've feared someone might say what has been said, and are not prepared for it, then maybe keep your photos to yourselves for another while, read only, look, compare, think, form an opinion of your own, try to put it into a newer photo of yours, grow yourself a thicker skin, and throw out the newer one. Out to here, to the galleries, that is. Not "out" as "into the bin", don't get me wrong.

Often those feel particularly "attacked" by negative critique who a) over-estimate themselves and b) have a niggling deep down inside that they might not QUITE reach their own expectations. Now if THEN someone even SAYS where they don't they go all "Whaa! Whaa! Must you be so blunt!?"

As long as even negative critique makes you think about your PHOTOGRAPHY more and brings you FORWARD, it is positive.

kellylindseyphotography · Jun 17, 2008

Senor Hound said:
I'm not saying to sugar coat, but when someone says that a photo is a "throw away," or that nothing works in it, that's not helpful.

It is precisely helpful. SO precice that you step back, look at the picture and ask yourself "why?". WHY would someone tell me that this photo just doesn't work? There is inherently a reason, and finding your reasons a message board aren't the answer. You take that advice, and be thankful for it. Why? Because your getting a responce from someone that (let's say for example) has years and years worth of experience on you.

If that person you know to be knowledgable, a good photographer, then take that with you and learn from it. If "nothing works in this shot", say thank you and then do your research to learn WHY. Go through the shot. Are the whites blown out anywhere? Darks lost detail? Crop is bad? Light is bad? Subject is uninteresting?

Most of the time, if someone gets the comment that it is a "throw away" you can attribute MANY ugly factors.

These threads are so silly at this point.

Apex · Jun 17, 2008

Try something new...a new style, a new piece of gear

I recently just bought a tripod and i never even thought i would use it all that much but even that gave me an entirely new perspective on my photos.
Im glad to see that youve found something new and exciting as well

Now if i just had the time to process them..... well thats a different story.

Mav · Jun 17, 2008

Hey Keith,

Funny you mentioned starting to shoot film. I just picked up a Nikon F100, slapped my 50mm f/1.4 on it along with a roll of B&W film! Results are here: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127071

keith204 · Jun 17, 2008

Mav said:
Hey Keith,

Funny you mentioned starting to shoot film. I just picked up a Nikon F100, slapped my 50mm f/1.4 on it along with a roll of B&W film! Results are here: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127071

Wow...the grain in film actually looks good! I can't wait to get mine developed. Gotta take 23 more pictures first.

abraxas · Jun 17, 2008

kellylindseyphotography said:
...

... Why? Because your getting a responce from someone that (let's say for example) has years and years worth of experience on you.

If that person you know to be knowledgable, a good photographer, then take that with you and learn from it. If "nothing works in this shot", say thank you and then do your research to learn WHY. Go through the shot. Are the whites blown out anywhere? Darks lost detail? Crop is bad? Light is bad? Subject is uninteresting?

...

how do you know that if you've never seen their work?

Senor Hound · Jun 17, 2008

abraxas said:
how do you know that if you've never seen their work?

I would guess this is part of the trade-off of taking advice from strangers. You can either trust them, or not. Hopefully you have evidence to support your decision, but if not, you just have to go with your gut. Fortunately, the experienced photographers address issues in a way that (many times) you don't have to see their work in order to know what they're talking about.

I personally take advice from everyone, because I don't think its possible to be any worse than I am. But with someone like you, I would only take the advice of those whom have posted on here for many years and have shown many different pieces of work. The rest I would say, could be ignored by the likes of you without you really losing anything pertinent.

kellylindseyphotography · Jun 17, 2008

abraxas said:
how do you know that if you've never seen their work?

I don't take advice from people whom I haven't seen their work.

abraxas · Jun 17, 2008

Senor Hound said:
I would guess this is part of the trade-off of taking advice from strangers. You can either trust them, or not. Hopefully you have evidence to support your decision, but if not, you just have to go with your gut. Fortunately, the experienced photographers address issues in a way that (many times) you don't have to see their work in order to know what they're talking about.

I personally take advice from everyone, because I don't think its possible to be any worse than I am. But with someone like you, I would only take the advice of those whom have posted on here for many years and have shown many different pieces of work. The rest I would say, could be ignored by the likes of you without you really losing anything pertinent.

So why should someone who generally does not post, that offers what they call, 'blunt and honest criticism', not be able to take a little, 'blunt and honest criticism' themselves without running away in a flurry of indignation? WTF are they to snivel and whine about the quality of posts being too bland and ego-stroking?

Maybe these self-indulgent critics should take a dose of the same reality they claim to present and accept that criticism of their criticism differs from their opinion of themselves. No sense in kissing their butt any more than they utilize diplomacy, tact, or show that they are sensitive or empathetic to the subject matter.

Do they care if anyone quits posting because of their ignoble honesty? No more than I care if they quit posting and run away if they can't take the criticism of what I see as worthless and unsubstantiated critiques.

Does the shoe fit? -Not always. That's just my opinion.

Senor Hound · Jun 17, 2008

abraxas said:
So why should someone who generally does not post, that offers what they call, 'blunt and honest criticism', not be able to take a little, 'blunt and honest criticism' themselves without running away in a flurry of indignation? WTF are they to snivel and whine about the quality of posts being too bland and ego-stroking?

Maybe these self-indulgent critics should take a dose of the same reality they claim to present and accept that criticism of their criticism differs from their opinion of themselves. No sense in kissing their butt any more than they utilize diplomacy, tact, or show that they are sensitive or empathetic to the subject matter.

Do they care if anyone quits posting because of their ignoble honesty? No more than I care if they quit posting and run away if they can't take the criticism of what I see as worthless and unsubstantiated critiques.

Does the shoe fit? -Not always. That's just my opinion.

I've seen a couple of people I would consider harsher than most totally flip out when criticized even constructively. I guess its some sort of psychological complex. Its like they can't admit that they make mistakes or something. Maybe it has to do with an overbearing father or some other repressed memory.

Its kind of funny to see them rationalizing their fallibility, "Well the reason I did this was (insert reason here), but whatever, that's just YOUR opinion."

The only way I cope even at the low level I do is because I believe in karma. Plus once in a while you'll see two of these sorts get into an argument with each other and really get hateful and frustrated. That kind of makes me feel better (in a sadistic way, I admit)

Also, just because these types don't act vulnerable on the outside doesn't mean they aren't on the inside. Once again, when you act a certain way, Karma will catch up to you, and in the end you're only hurting yourself.

abraxas · Jun 17, 2008

Senor Hound said:
I've seen a couple of people I would consider harsher than most totally flip out when criticized even constructively. I guess its some sort of psychological complex. Its like they can't admit that they make mistakes or something. Maybe it has to do with an overbearing father or some other repressed memory.

Its kind of funny to see them rationalizing their fallibility, "Well the reason I did this was (insert reason here), but whatever, that's just YOUR opinion."

The only way I cope even at the low level I do is because I believe in karma. Plus once in a while you'll see two of these sorts get into an argument with each other and really get hateful and frustrated. That kind of makes me feel better (in a sadistic way, I admit)

Also, just because these types don't act vulnerable on the outside doesn't mean they aren't on the inside. Once again, when you act a certain way, Karma will catch up to you, and in the end you're only hurting yourself.