Sharing my thoughts and feeling about moving from APS-C (Crop Sensor) to Full Frame camera

goodguy

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I am now about 6 months using a full frame camera and I would like to share my personal feelings about the move and change from APS-C (crop sensor), maybe this will help people who consider if to make the move from crop sensor camera to full frame.

Why I made the move

1.My main reason for moving to FF was better low light performance
2.I also simply wanted FF, for me it was like moving from a 4 cylinder car to 6 cylinder.
Do I really need it ?
Probably not
Do I really want it ?
Absolutely yes

Many people who want to move from crop sensor to FF ask themselves is it really worth it, valid question.
What can I improve in my photography if I will make the jump.
If you have a crop sensor camera and just the kit lens then the move is relatively easy but if you have few crop sensor lenses with your crop sensor camera then the move starts getting more complicated and more expensive.

I assume most people here know the pro's and con's of crop sensor body vs FF but for those who dot know I will quickly sum it up

Pro's of crop sensor

1.Crop sensor camera has 1.5 multiple crop factor with Nikon, Fuji and Sony and 1.6 crop factor with Canon cameras.
2.Bigger depth Of Field which might help to compensate for any focusing issues camera, lens or user does
3.In most cases crop sensor cameras are smaller and has smaller lenses then their FF counterparts.
4.Usually they are cheaper

Pro's of FF

1.Better low light performance
2.Shallower depth of field (for better Bokeh)
3.Usually has a bigger availability of more lenses and better lenses (especially in Nikon and Canon case)

So did the move improve my photography ?

I think it did, mainly for 2 reasons

1.I am getting cleaner images at higher ISO, its a fairly noticeable improvement compared to my crop sensor camera.
2.Since I have better low light performance I am less worried about the technical aspect of the camera and is more focused at composition.

For me it was a rather liberating thing to have a better and more flexible system which I feel gives me more flexible environment to shoot with.

So I am very happy I made the move, I think for me moving to FF was not a must and I did very well with crop sensor and I do miss the better reach of the crop sensor but looking at the big picture (pun intended) I am very happy I made the move and I would recommend it to those who want the better low light performance and willing to loos the crop sensor factor.

Just one more comment, to get really all the benefits of the FF sensor you better get good fast glass but to be honest this can be said on crop sensor camera too.
 

KmH

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A shallower depth-of-field won't give you better bokeh.
A shallower depth of field will just allow you to have more blur at the same point of focus distance compared to using a crop sensor camera.

The only way to get better bokeh is to use a different lens that has more aperture blades, more rounded aperture blades, better optics, and better construction.
 

Derrel

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We can see that some people cannot accept the common definition of what 'bokeh' has come to mean in actual use, you know, across the English-speaking world, among millions of photography enthusiasts. Bokeh was introduced to the English-speaking world in 1997 in articles published in Photo Techniques magazine, which was edited by Mike Johnston at that time. Johnston has since gone on to write The Online Photographer blog. Some people might want to read Mike Johnston's own words about what bokeh means, in an article he wrote here: The Online Photographer What Is Bokeh

Comment from Mike's article: "Then there's the issue of the applied connoisseurship of lens bokeh—specific aesthetic effects, or the adjective preceding the word. The Japanese term for the character of the bokeh (according to Oren) is boke-aji, which translates roughly to "flavor of blur." Typical "flavors" might be harsh, jarring, smooth, fuzzy, tizzy, confused, soft, etc."

Seems that some people need to accept that bokeh really means just "the blur"....and that using bokeh in the "common" manner is actually correct, and that the qualitative evaluation of bokeh is another thing entirely. Huh...imagine that...

My main APS-C to FF experience was the way lenses were used, the way different focal length lenses could actually be used in real-world situations, and most especially indoors. The 50mm and 85mm and 135mm lens lengths, and the 70-200 zoom lens benefit HUGELY for indoor use when the sensor "sees" the entire image circle that those lenses are projecting. Instead of forcing you to be in the next room to use those 50mm to 200mm lengths, the full-frame sensor makes the lenses useful, usable, in many real-world interior locations.
 
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IronMaskDuval

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Amir, I disagree. Do I think that your photos are better because you moved to FX? No. I think you've become a better photographer, because you've continued to shoot and looked for ways to improve your technique. Sure, you can use the low light as an argument, but if you compare your low ISO shots from before and now, you can see a drastic difference even when you do not have to concern yourself with the camera's limitation. You also place yourself in a lot of situations where shooting better photos presents itself. You also have better glass. There are so many factors as to why your photography has improved, but I do not think that the DX to FX switch has much to do with it. Even today, I wouldn't press one over the other to any individual looking to get into a high end aps-c or ff. Each is a unique tool that performs well in different areas. Although I enjoy my D610 very much, I do often times yern for the reach of my D7100, but if I had to choose, I would choose the D610, because I could afford it without having my water shut off and it fits my hands like a glove.
 

Gary A.

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Not to be argumentative ... but adding some food for thought. I moved from FF to APS-C and my images did not get worse.

We all see and shoot differently. I am glad that your photography is improving regardless of the path.
 
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goodguy

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A shallower depth-of-field won't give you better bokeh.
A shallower depth of field will just allow you to have more blur.
That's exactly what I meant but sadly my wording was wrong, please excuse my mistakes as English is my second language and sometimes I do miss these small yet very important subtleties
 
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goodguy

goodguy

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"IronMaskDuval"
First thank you for your kind words, this is the second time you mention my photography in such a wonderful positive way and I am very grateful and humbled by it!
Experience might be a part of it, maybe a big part but I still feel going FF has set my mind so I feel more worried about composition then technical aspects, maybe its experience and maybe just psychological this is why I wrote in the title that these are my thoughts and feelings which are very subjective, not cold hard facts just my own observation, I think its worth considering if somebody is interested in moving to FF from APS-C
And again thank you :)
 

astroNikon

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I've used the same lenses on my d7000 as my d600. I had all the same lenses before I bought a d600 body. And I still prefer the d600 even for longer reach things. As soon as I went to the d600 the ability of even fading light really showed it's strength and making photography more enjoyable.

I still have my d7000 but I don't reach for it when I need more reach. I only use it when I have adequate light. But hey ... each person has their own requirements and experiences.

I thought the Japanese invented Bokeh !! .. if anything it's kinda funny ==>
 
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goodguy

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Not to be argumentative ... but adding some food for thought. I moved from FF to APS-C and my images did not get worse.

We all see and shoot differently. I am glad that your photography is improving regardless of the path.
Your comment is not argumentative at all and I respect your own experience, I think moving from DX to FX has its drawbacks and might not be helpful in all situation.
If you need the crop factor or if you shoot mostly in good lighting up to lets say 3200ISO then FF really isn't all that helpful but as a camera for general use if user plans on using it in all situations day and night indoors and outdoors, Landscape, Portrait, sports and non moving subjects I found for me FF is an improvement.
Again this is subjective and is only my opinion, thank you for your comment.
 

astroNikon

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Though low light has it's limits. I was distraught though when I tried photographing a few US AirForce Chinooks flying low over head in pitch black (no moon, cloud cover) and all you could see was their anti-collision lights. I thought of using a spotlight, but that may have introduced a missile towards my direction lol

But normally, the FF does an excellent job in low light.
 

IronMaskDuval

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I've used the same lenses on my d7000 as my d600. I had all the same lenses before I bought a d600 body. And I still prefer the d600 even for longer reach things. As soon as I went to the d600 the ability of even fading light really showed it's strength and making photography more enjoyable.

I still have my d7000 but I don't reach for it when I need more reach. I only use it when I have adequate light. But hey ... each person has their own requirements and experiences.

I thought the Japanese invented Bokeh !! .. if anything it's kinda funny ==>
Astro, the differences between the D7000 and D7100 is far and wide IMP, even in IQ. The megapixels alone on the D7100 allows one to crop on a macro and retain a sharp photo. I've owned both, and although both are very excellent cameras, I think comparing a d7100 to a d600 is more apples to apples than a d7000 is to a d600.

There are many people that will try to compare the two and not owned two or three of them. Is my D7100 better than my D610 at low light? Yes, but that doesn't mean that well shot images at 6400 iso isn't acceptable from the d7100.

Amir, As with you, it is at times psychological with me. We are mostly after all, gearheads. But I think it would not be right to say aps-c vs ff, but rather consumer vs prosumer. And on that note, both the D7x00 and D6x0 are both considered pro bodies with nikon ps now anyway.
 

IronMaskDuval

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Let's get this straight, as my profession is in marketing consulting and management for f1000 companies. Nikon and Cannon can only go so long labling cameras as pro and consumer bodies. They both know that at some point, both aps-c and ff cameras will be so similar in performance that they will have to seek other channels of revenue. For us to argue one type over the other is merely the affects of marketing. There are some facts that stand true, such as larger pixels being able to capture more light, but that won't stand for long either. Eventually, these companies will have to seek other sources of sustainable money once advancement hits a ceiling.
 

astroNikon

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Astro, the differences between the D7000 and D7100 is far and wide IMP, even in IQ. The megapixels alone on the D7100 allows one to crop on a macro and retain a sharp photo. I've owned both, and although both are very excellent cameras, I think comparing a d7100 to a d600 is more apples to apples than a d7000 is to a d600.

There are many people that will try to compare the two and not owned two or three of them. Is my D7100 better than my D610 at low light? Yes, but that doesn't mean that well shot images at 6400 iso isn't acceptable from the d7100.

Amir, As with you, it is at times psychological with me. We are mostly after all, gearheads. But I think it would not be right to say aps-c vs ff, but rather consumer vs prosumer. And on that note, both the D7x00 and D6x0 are both considered pro bodies with nikon ps now anyway.
Yes but alot of the conversation is generic ... "DX to FX"
with some specific language "7100 to 610"

Mine was a specific comparison .. d7000 to d600 because I did and still do have both of them. I was tempted to go to the d7100 at one time but the d600 was only a couple hundred more. I'd still feel my choice is best for all my uses.
 
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goodguy

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Let's get this straight, as my profession is in marketing consulting and management for f1000 companies. Nikon and Cannon can only go so long labling cameras as pro and consumer bodies. They both know that at some point, both aps-c and ff cameras will be so similar in performance that they will have to seek other channels of revenue. For us to argue one type over the other is merely the affects of marketing. There are some facts that stand true, such as larger pixels being able to capture more light, but that won't stand for long either. Eventually, these companies will have to seek other sources of sustainable money once advancement hits a ceiling.
FF and APS-C will never have almost same low light performance as FF brings about twice amount of light APS-C does and thats a lot!
As APS-C sensors get better so does FF, you might argue that we are now at a point that APS-C offer more then enough performance not to need FF but then I say there isnt such a word as good enough low light performance.
I said in the past when a sensor will come out that will have around 100000ISO with IQ same as 100ISO then I might agree to say this is enough for me, until then I will drool over every new camera with better low light performance, I am sure there are people like me who think so too.
So APS-C and FF each has its advantages and disadvantages and followers.
 

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