Sigma 300mm f2.8 or Sigma 120-300 f2.8?

[Smokeyr67]

Hi guys,

I've been given permission to buy a 300mm lens for my Canon, the budget gives me a couple of options either a Sigma 300mm f2.8 prime, or it's brother the 120-300mm f2.8 zoom. I'll be using it primarily for nature photography and kids sport.


Prime

Pros - Lighter
Cheaper
Drop in filter (possibly included)

Cons - Fixed focal length.


Zoom

Pros - Zoom
Stabilised
USB Dock compatible

Cons - Heavy
105mm filter ($350 for a CPL!)


If you can add any pros or cons to my list, please do, I'm in a loop


Shane

 

[pixmedic]

if you are going to be shooting any handheld at 300mm, the zoom with IS may be a huge advantage.
I think i would prefer the zoom myself, since they are both f/2.8, just for the added focal range.

 

[curtyoungblood]

Are you looking at the new Sigma 120-300 Sport?

If so, then you should also at least consider a used Canon 300 2.8. You can definitely get a strong model, with IS, in that price range. The 300 is a really terrific lens, and I would be concerned buying used at all with it.

 

[gsgary]

Ive got the Canon 300F2.8L and my friend used to have the 120-300F2.8 one day we compared them and the 300mm focal length of the 120-300 was actually shorter than the Canon, it's a nice lens but does not live upto the Canon

 

[Derrel]

Based on what I've read from Lensrentals.com, a large web-based USA lens and camera rental firm, the Sigma 120-300, and other Sigma lenses, has had some serious reliability issues. At various times, the 120-300 has been very unreliable, malfunctioning in very short order. OTOH, Michael Reichmann of the Luminous Landscape website tested and used the 120-300, the "new" style model, and proclaimed it an extraordinarily good lens...optically. I dunno...around here, older, used Canon 300mm f/2.8 lenses sell for around $2,000 US dollars at walk-in retail (not at B&H Photo, not at Adorama, not at the Big 5 web-based dealers). Newer versions cost more, but are still $2,500 or so at walk-in, smaller-market retail. I know that Australia has very high prices on photo gear, due to the closed market importer system or whatever, but despite the good things I have read about Sigma lenses, their 120-300mm lens's reliability still concerns me. It is among their 19 most-repaired lenses. LensRentals.com - Lensrentals Repair Data: 2012-2013

 

[Smokeyr67]

Derrel, is that the new or old 120-300? I've only heard good things about the new ones, but they are new so reports will be limited.

A second hand Canaon 300 f2,8 starts at about $5000 over here so I'm not going that route, and to be honest I like Sigma, I don't buy their consumer lenses, and so far I have nothing but good things to say about them

 

[play18now]

I'm assuming LenRentals.com has a large enough sample size. I've heard of a lot of reliability issues with the motors in Sigma lenses. But I also took a quick look at that link and noticed that both Canon and Nikon 70-200 2.8's were on the list of shortest time till needing repair. Both are known for being pretty tough lenses. Just found that interesting.

 

[Derrel]

Derrel, is that the new or old 120-300? I've only heard good things about the new ones, but they are new so reports will be limited.

A second hand Canaon 300 f2,8 starts at about $5000 over here so I'm not going that route, and to be honest I like Sigma, I don't buy their consumer lenses, and so far I have nothing but good things to say about them

Roger did not specify, but based on what I have read from him over the past few years, these must be newer Sigma 120-300's; the older design was so utterly unreliable that he wrote they stopped stocking and renting them. But later, Sigma seemed to up its quality control, and improved its repair system, and Lensrentals once again decided to stock some Sigma lenses for rental. I saw the old vs new Sigma teardown piece on the Lensrentals site, so I am assuming these are the newer style lenses.

As far as reliability and average weeks in rental before failure, the Nikon, Sigma, and Canon 70-200 f/2.8 lenses are ALL in the top 19 most-repaired lenses! If you have seen any of Roger's Lensrentals tear-down articles, you will know that these new modern zoom lenses are VERY complex machines, literally stuffed with components and electronics inside the barrels! These lenses do not seem to fare all that well when shipped and rented out. Not all of them fail, but the numbers are what they are: [TABLE="class: wp-table-reloaded wp-table-reloaded-id-71, width: 660"]
[TR="class: row-4 even"]
[TD="class: column-1, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 VR II[/TD]
[TD="class: column-2, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]39[/TD]
[TD="class: column-3, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Large[/TD]
[TD="class: column-4, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Zoom jam (16), Optics (15), tripod footplate (8)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


So, on average , 39 weeks of rental to failure for this lens model.

[TABLE="class: wp-table-reloaded wp-table-reloaded-id-71, width: 660"]
[TR="class: row-10 even"]
[TD="class: column-1, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II[/TD]
[TD="class: column-2, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]42[/TD]
[TD="class: column-3, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Very Large[/TD]
[TD="class: column-4, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Optics (29), IS (7) , loose barrel (7), zoom jam (6)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="class: wp-table-reloaded wp-table-reloaded-id-71, width: 660"]
[TR="class: row-11 odd"]
[TD="class: column-1, bgcolor: #F0F0F6"]Sigma 120-300 OS[/TD]
[TD="class: column-2, bgcolor: #F0F0F6"]45[/TD]
[TD="class: column-3, bgcolor: #F0F0F6"]Small[/TD]
[TD="class: column-4, bgcolor: #F0F0F6"]AF Motor (3), OS system (2)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

On a small sample of Sigma 120-300 lenses, the AF motor and the OS system were the two failure areas on five lenses.

 

[Smokeyr67]

Thanks Derrel,

Looks like those who rent drive them like they stole them!

Anyhow, what I was looking for was personal experience with either lense, what I've got is a master class in glass

 

[Smokeyr67]

I'm assuming LenRentals.com has a large enough sample size. I've heard of a lot of reliability issues with the motors in Sigma lenses. But I also took a quick look at that link and noticed that both Canon and Nikon 70-200 2.8's were on the list of shortest time till needing repair. Both are known for being pretty tough lenses. Just found that interesting.

I assume they are the more popular lenses, so they get used more, so they will fail more regularly chronologically.

 

[Derrel]

Thanks Derrel,

Looks like those who rent drive them like they stole them!

Anyhow, what I was looking for was personal experience with either lense, what I've got is a master class in glass

That's a good point, it DOES seem like the renters drive 'em like they stole 'em!!! Just as an aside, Roger wrote a year or two ago that the bigger Sigmas were not surviving the SHIPPING and PACKING well...that many of them were damaged in-transit. So they changed the way they packed them for shipping. I still think that rental lenses probably ARE beat to chit, as we say here, by their short-term masters!! I myself do see the appeal and allure of the Sigma 120-300. I own their smaller 100-300 f/4 HSM (since discontinued) and own a fixed 300/2.8. The ZOOM ability of a zoom lens is, well, pretty handy. There was a time when I had a pretty serious hankering for the 120-300, five,six years ago.

 

[Smokeyr67]

Derrel,

It would be interesting to see a "shutter count" and miles travelled for the rental lenses, could make some interesting real world stats.

I do like the look of the 300 f2.8 prime - if a bit of metal, glass and plastic can be called sexy, it's a 300mm prime

I contacted Sigma in the last few days about the prospect of them bringing out (a) an OS version of the 300 f2.8 and (b) the same lens compatible with their USB dock, and on point (a) was a cryptic probably, (b) was a veiled "not going to happen".

 

[Overread]

For nature and wildlife chances are you'll get to the 600mm end and sit there most of the time (yes I said 600mm because you'll be putting a 2*TC to get a good range unless you've a very good hide position). At that situation the zoom isn't "as" useful because unless something comes close you'll be at the long end.

Note that with the 120-300mm chances are you'll also want to preserve sharpness and stop down one stop from wide open; like all lenses it doesn't perform it best wide open and when you put a 2*TC on the results take a noticeable drop - still generally useable but I prefer to drop down to f7.1 or f8 just for that little bit more crispness.

For sports, zoos and other situations the zoom has a distinct advantage and for more distance based setups I'd actually say I prefer it over a 70-200mm since you've got a nice variable range that favours the action or event being further away from you than closer. The 120-300mm is certainly more than sharp enough without any TC and takes a 1.4 very well and a 2*TC decently well. Canon's 300mm f2.8 IS would be superior with a 2*TC and is lighter - if you can get a second hand copy (The new IS M2 version is the best, but also significantly more pricey).

I also find with the 120-300mm that whilst you can hand hold it you'll want a monopod - even if its just to take the weight whilst waiting for the shot. I find I shift between monopod supported shots and handheld shots depending on the situation but do like having the monopod attached for when that strain just gets a little too much.

Also remember if you're at 600mm you need 1/600sec shutter speed or faster for a handheld shot to come out clear (in ideal situations, considering the weight you might find you need faster still).

no TC

2*TC fitted (taken at f7.1)

 

[curtyoungblood]

I've been doing a lot of research into longer glass lately too, and it is my impression that the reliability issues are with some of the older sigma 120-300s. There are now 3 versions of this lens, and the newest has been out for less than a year. It seems pretty clear that the first version was hit or miss, with the second being more reliable. I've only read good things about the newest lens, although it is possible that there just hasn't been enough time for repair complaints to get started.

EDIT: I meant to include this, but I'm pretty certain that everything Roger from Lensrentals has written was produced before the newest 120-300 was on the market.

 

[gsgary]

I've been doing a lot of research into longer glass lately too, and it is my impression that the reliability issues are with some of the older sigma 120-300s. There are now 3 versions of this lens, and the newest has been out for less than a year. It seems pretty clear that the first version was hit or miss, with the second being more reliable. I've only read good things about the newest lens, although it is possible that there just hasn't been enough time for repair complaints to get started.

EDIT: I meant to include this, but I'm pretty certain that everything Roger from Lensrentals has written was produced before the newest 120-300 was on the market.

My Canon 300f2.8L was made in 1995 so nearly 30 year old still works perfectly and still worth about £1800 not sure you will be able to say the same for the new version of the Sigma

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