simple question.. not so simple answer it seems

[Ant]

Someone's advice was to see you lawyer. Very good advice.

In the U.S. you can shoot that picture and probably get away with publishing it in a periodical or newspaper. But to sell the photos you would need a "Property Release" which is the property version of a model release.

This is where UK and US law differ. You do not need a property release in the UK (unless copywrite is involved) Strictly speaking You don't even need a model release form over here either, unlike the US. It's the main reason why our press are considered to be some of the most intrusive in the world.

I disagree with the advice of seeing a lawyer too, unless you've got money to burn. I've been through this scenario, my best friend is a copywrite lawyer and the legal info I've given is sound....If you haven't invaded his privacy, contravened copywrite on the car design, or transgressed a photographic agreement with the venue owner then the photo is yours to do with as you see fit.

As to how you deal with the car owner if you discover that you have the rights to the photograph, well, that's a moral decision that's yours to take. Personally for me it would depend on the initial attitude of the car owner. If he's being reasonable then it's only fair to be reasonable too. However, if he's being a jerk about this then I say screw him. Why should you let an idiot get away with telling you what to do and pushing you around?

 

[PlasticSpanner]

Some stage Rallies I've been to here in Uk either as a marshall or spectating have said on the tickets that all photography rights belong to (organisers/land owners) but there aren't many that do that.

Rally photographers I know usually charge for their photos whether they're official photog or not and I've never heard of a car owner claiming "royalties" for sold pictures of their rally cars.

 

[Rob]

This is where UK and US law differ. You do not need a property release in the UK (unless copywrite is involved) Strictly speaking You don't even need a model release form over here either, unlike the US. It's the main reason why our press are considered to be some of the most intrusive in the world.

This is one of the good things about the UK. Believe me he probably couldn't even get it to court (assuming he knows who you are).

Citizen's advice can be very good as a free alternative to costly legal advice as in my experience they can be very helpful - depends on your local office of course.

To take it a step further, if the car owner could sue you or get royalties, then by the same logic, the manufacturer of the car could get a slice too - it's not going to happen is it?

Rob

 

[Meysha]

This is farfetched but could be fun. (yes I know.. I'm a geek.)

Go to a local uni website - look up the time table for their law subjects,
Go to the class just after they've finished
Stand outside and nab someone and ask them what they think of your situation.
Ask them to show you the laws written down somewhere.
Get a photocopy, take it and show the car guy.

Those actual laws aren't that difficult to read and understand.... or you could just go into the library and try looking for it yourself.
Good luck!

 

[Islair]

Ok, this is a little different from your situation but I'll tell it anyway.

I worked for an Art Gallery that had a group of painters that created original paintings for the gallery. One persons job was to go out take photos of everything they saw and then bring back the prints. The artists then created original paintings of things they pieced together.

One such time the photographer took a photo of a car that was in a parade, a photo of a house, a photo of 2 kids playing on toy tractors, and a photo of an old guy walking.

Well the artist made the painting and then we sent it off to create an edition of 950 prints. Well the prints came back and we started selling them. Low and behold a print got into the hands of the gentleman owning the car. It was his car, and he knew it. There were not many early 50's Buicks in the area.

Well he wanted a share of the profit, but since the original photo was taken on a public street and then created into a painting he didnt have a leg to stand on and his suit fell through. This all happened in the US but I thought I would share my story.

Islair