Some Thoughts and Warnings for Beginners...

[HughGuessWho]

The responses about being perfectly ok to not post a lot or any pictures is strange to me. I have read sooooo many threads where long time members and their followers constantly slam people for never posting any of their work, and call them trolls. So, which way is it?

 

[rexbobcat]

CC welcome! Just keep it positive, mmmk?

View attachment 19884

Well, from what I can tell you were trying to evoke a modern Constructivism. You can see how the shapes of your fingers glide through the frame, the smooth blurred edges obscuring the roughness of the grass. It's erect nature giving us the vision of the phallus, a symbol of masculine strength.

What is behind the finger? What are you hiding? It's so peculiar and intriguing, as if you're coyly beckoning me to stare longer - to take in the photo in it's beautiful entirety - to question even the meanings of why I'm here, and who I am.

I rate it 5/5

 

[Dao]

CC welcome! Just keep it positive, mmmk?

View attachment 19884

I feel a sense of suspense here. I will name this "Kidnapped"

 

[cgipson1]

I've spent the past couple of weeks reading countless threads here on TPF (and several other forums). I'm noticing a trend, and I wanted to throw my concerns out there. I'm sure I'll be burned at the stake for this post, but I think it's important.


Cheers,
Mike

And these are all OPINIONS (your opinions) .... just like the opinions you are bashing / discounting. The difference is some of those opinions you are discounting have multiple decades of experience behind them... so discount them all you want!

We do see posts like this time to time.. and it is usually from someone trying to justify their ideas, and opinions! (and change the world to meet their expectations... good luck with that!)

Often, the "standard" is boring. Galleries full of "the standard" are boring.

So you don't like what is in most galleries, huh? Well, then your work (if it is that different) may never end up in a gallery. (although I am sure that FB will open a gallery one of these days, maybe you can get your work in there!)

We hear the same stuff you are saying from the Facebook Pros all the time. (again.. trying to justify why they do what they do!)

 

[cgipson1]

CC welcome! Just keep it positive, mmmk?

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Title it "Area 51"! It is very evocative of something.. it is a mystery.... and it is shot in vertical orientation, YOU REBEL!

 

[MikeLem]

Do you guys really feel like you're helping new members? I think this is a serious issue. Several seem to agree. Why make a mockery of it?

 

[amolitor]

Do you guys really feel like you're helping new members? I think this is a serious issue. Several seem to agree. Why make a mockery of it?

I certainly try to, but I'm one of the guys who yells at people being jerks.

There's a cultural problem here. At first I thought it was a selected subset of yahoos who just liked to bully the noobs, but I no longer think that is true. What we see in the Photo Galleries is a culture among the members in longer standing where it is simply viewed as acceptable to say nasty things to newbies. There's a set of standard rationalizations that get trotted out (when you've been at it as long as us, you get frustrated; the newbie was a total jerk in some other thread; you can't help people unless you force them to see the truth of their crumminess; etc), but what's really going is this: If you've had a bad day, or are frustrated with this one guy, or really think the work is terrible, it's OK to be a jerk to the newbie. After all, everyone else does it, it's just part of the rough and tumble of TPF!

It's not a selected group, it's pretty much most people, but not all the time. People who were complete jerks on Monday can be the most helpful and thoughtful contributor on Tuesday.

No, it doesn't help the newbies to get yelled at, the rationalizations are just rationalizations.

I dunno what to do about it, but it's kind of fun to tweak the guys who do it.

 

[cgipson1]

Do you guys really feel like you're helping new members? I think this is a serious issue. Several seem to agree. Why make a mockery of it?

YES! Most of us honestly try to help new members.. with the problems they have (A lot of technical issues, like exposure, DOF, flash use, how-to's on many different subjects, etc, etc, etc). The majority of the users lack any art education (most lack even the basic concepts), so we try to help with that too (you know, those common guidelines... like ROTS, not centering subjects, how to emphasize subjects, etc, etc, etc.)

And yes.. we usually end up mentioning that you should know the guidelines, and HOW and WHEN to break them. However.. most break them without a clue.. and some continue to do so in some sense that they are right, no matter what people say (these are usually the same ones that don't understand exposure, DOF or any of the basics).

Speaking of Art Education... most of the people we get who post what you have posted, lack Art education (most lack any education)! Have you had any "Art" education, and if so.. is that what you base you opinions on?

 

[cgipson1]

Do you guys really feel like you're helping new members? I think this is a serious issue. Several seem to agree. Why make a mockery of it?

I certainly try to, but I'm one of the guys who yells at people being jerks.

I dunno what to do about it, but it's kind of fun to tweak the guys who do it.

Isn't that the definition of a TROLL?

 

[amolitor]

Do you guys really feel like you're helping new members? I think this is a serious issue. Several seem to agree. Why make a mockery of it?

I certainly try to, but I'm one of the guys who yells at people being jerks.

I dunno what to do about it, but it's kind of fun to tweak the guys who do it.

Isn't that the definition of a TROLL?

Nah, "troll" just means "someone who doesn't agree with me" these days.

 

[cgipson1]

I certainly try to, but I'm one of the guys who yells at people being jerks.

I dunno what to do about it, but it's kind of fun to tweak the guys who do it.

Isn't that the definition of a TROLL?

Nah, "troll" just means "someone who doesn't agree with me" these days.

Really? I thought that was a A-hole! lol! I just don't know the terms now...

 

[sm4him]

Do you guys really feel like you're helping new members? I think this is a serious issue. Several seem to agree. Why make a mockery of it?

Well, I'm just an enthusiastic, mediocre amateur, so I reckon by your standards my opinion isn't worth the screen space it takes up, but I'll give it anyway.

In direct answer to the question I quoted--they certainly helped ME when I was new here.
Whether they are helping new members or not, is really more up to the new members. The majority of the longtimers here are quite helpful--some of them are also sarcastic or blunt to the point of rudeness--and a couple of them just seem to have missed the line where "social graces" were handed out. This does not mean their advice isn't worth listening to--it's funny to me how people so often rail against people being "rude," or "sarcastic" in a forum, when the fact is, it is JUST like Real Life!!

Are they "helping new members?" Well, they're putting good advice out there--but it's up to the new members to decide whether or not to pay it any heed, or to decide that they are an "Arteest" and do not need anything so ridiculous as a solid foundation in the basics of photography. If they are "above" helping because all they want to do is "defend" their work, then there's little anyone can do. If they are teachable, then YES, many, MANY of the longtimers here are immensely helpful.

I won't really belabor your original post, as I think most of what I'd say has already been said by others. But your remark, "Often, the "standard" is boring. Galleries full of "the standard" are boring" really strikes me as interesting.
Boring to WHOM? It kinda seems to me like you're just bashing the traditionalists among us for trying to teach the basics of composition and exposure and the importance of a good foundation.

Creativity and originality are certainly laudable goals in photography, or in any artistic endeavor. But, IMO, a good, solid understanding of the principles and basic guidelines is also critical. As far as I'm concerned, when you understand WHY those "boring standards" BECAME the "Standard", your creativity and originality can be used to even better results.

 

[cgipson1]

Do you guys really feel like you're helping new members? I think this is a serious issue. Several seem to agree. Why make a mockery of it?

Well, I'm just an enthusiastic, mediocre amateur, so I reckon by your standards my opinion isn't worth the screen space it takes up, but I'll give it anyway.

In direct answer to the question I quoted--they certainly helped ME when I was new here.
Whether they are helping new members or not, is really more up to the new members. The majority of the longtimers here are quite helpful--some of them are also sarcastic or blunt to the point of rudeness--and a couple of them just seem to have missed the line where "social graces" were handed out. This does not mean their advice isn't worth listening to--it's funny to me how people so often rail against people being "rude," or "sarcastic" in a forum, when the fact is, it is JUST like Real Life!!

Are they "helping new members?" Well, they're putting good advice out there--but it's up to the new members to decide whether or not to pay it any heed, or to decide that they are an "Arteest" and do not need anything so ridiculous as a solid foundation in the basics of photography. If they are "above" helping because all they want to do is "defend" their work, then there's little anyone can do. If they are teachable, then YES, many, MANY of the longtimers here are immensely helpful.

I won't really belabor your original post, as I think most of what I'd say has already been said by others. But your remark, "Often, the "standard" is boring. Galleries full of "the standard" are boring" really strikes me as interesting.
Boring to WHOM? It kinda seems to me like you're just bashing the traditionalists among us for trying to teach the basics of composition and exposure and the importance of a good foundation.

Creativity and originality are certainly laudable goals in photography, or in any artistic endeavor. But, IMO, a good, solid understanding of the principles and basic guidelines is also critical. As far as I'm concerned, when you understand WHY those "boring standards" BECAME the "Standard", your creativity and originality can be used to even better results.

Well Said!

 

[amolitor]

This does not mean their advice isn't worth listening to--it's funny to me how people so often rail against people being "rude," or "sarcastic" in a forum, when the fact is, it is JUST like Real Life!!

But it's not just like Real Life. People say stuff to one another on TPF (and on any other internet forum) which would get them punched in the nose in Real Life, and they say it all the time. In real life, we couch our criticism in pleasantries. We say 'well, I have to admit I don't much like this photograph, and I think there are a number of technical and artistic problems with it' rather than 'you are obviously clueless, since your photographs are such crap'.

The sentiment expressed in both is roughly the same, but the first one is respectful of the person, and the second is not. The second one gets you popped, in real life, and for excellent reasons. The second one also causes anyone with a lick of sense to stop paying the slightest attention to anything you say.

 

[KenC]

There's no justification for being nasty. If someone's work is so bad a viewer finds it annoying, then they can just choose not to comment, or to stick to constructive criticism. However, sometimes constructive criticism is taken as nastiness when it really isn't. We can spend a lot of time pointing fingers and arguing about this, but most likely it won't change anything. The forum is a subset of the photo world, which contains a lot of jerks, both among the experienced and the inexperienced. The best thing for someone posting images (or anything else for that matter) is to ignore the nasty people and get whatever you can from the comments.