Sunset/Sunrise and fliters

camjam · Dec 29, 2012

I am reading up on taking sunset/sunrise photos. Most of the articles I have read suggest a ND or GND filter. I do not have either, but I do have a circular polarizing filter. Can I achieve the same look with the filter I have or do I need ND or GND?

Thank you

CCericola · Dec 29, 2012

The polarizer does not do the same thing. Here is a DIY page for ND filters: DIY $10 10-Stop Neutral Density (ND) Filter

camjam · Dec 29, 2012

Awesome!

Vautrin · Dec 30, 2012

You can also apply an ND filter in photoshop / lightroom

If you shoot in raw and use a camera with decent dynamic range you wont even miss the glass filter

Vautrin · Dec 30, 2012

Or take an HDR. This can allow you to get a HUgE dynamic range.

The key is not to overdue the processing with hdr.

Its a little bit personal preference, but if i shoot an hdr i dont want a crazy psychedlic photo, but one that looks natural

archangel · Dec 30, 2012

This is one of those conundrums that plague many photographers, especially beginners. Both options on here are correct; an ND rev grad filter is a good choice, or do it all in post. The question is, do you want to spend the money on e equipment, or do you have the skills in photoshop/Lightroom to mimick the filter? I personally know that it takes a fair amount of time to learn how to properly use both, especially doing it by software. You'll only know if you try. Also look up Adam Barker...he has awesome tutorials on how to use ND GRAD filters for sunsets.

tirediron · Dec 30, 2012

First of all, you CANNOT replicate an ND or G-ND in post; you can, apply a digital filter which mimicks SOME of the effects, however, if there are blown highlights or deep shadow in the original, there's NOTHING that can be done to recover this. HDR can be a workable solution, IF you're quick enough to get all of your shots before the sun moves significantly (this will depend on your location and skill). The best solution however is to have proper G-ND filters. I always suggest the 1-2-3 kit; that is a 1 stop, a two stop, and a 3 stop, which combined can give you up to six stops. If that doesn't do it, you probably shouldn't bother!

Be aware that there are two different types of G-ND; hard transition and soft transition. The difference being the amount of area between the full value of the netural density portion of the filter and the zero value of the clear filter element. Hard transitions are great for seascapes where there is a flat, straight horizon. Soft transitions are better for uneven horizons such as mountains.

Christina's suggestion of the welding glass is a good one, but you will need to shoot in raw if you use it, since the welding glass imparts a strong green cast to the image which is difficult to correct otherwise. Remember though that this will reduce the intensity of the ENTIRE image, and generally with a sunset/rise/landscape, what we're trying to do is reduce the dynamic range of the scene by blocking some of the light from PART of the scene.

thetrue · Dec 30, 2012

If you do something like the welding glass ND, is it possible to take two photos, one metered for the sky with the filter and one metered for the landscape portion WITHOUT the filter and combine them in post? I'm not sure about stacking images/exposures so this is purely a question and oppurtunity for learning.

camjam · Dec 30, 2012

Going south to Fl to watch my son swim and was hoping to take some sunrise/sunset photos while there. I will be taking a D7000 with a 70-200, 24-70 and a light tripod. I don't have a lens any wider. Tirediron, I do shoot RAW and I appreciate the explanation about the filters. I was excited by the welder glass idea as I have some here, unfortunately, all the pieces have been cut to fit masks. As far as Photoshop skill....lets say they need a lot of work. So, I prefer equipment over software. HDR sounds reasonable and I think the D7000 actually has a multiple exposure feature.

The trip should be interesting...it will be the first time shooting a swim meet at an outdoor pool. And the first time flying with a camera.

sactown024 · Dec 30, 2012

Just made an ND filter today using welding glass, i made a 10 stop filter which is wayyyyy to much, go with 4 stop or something.

Also I took some sunset photos today and all the lighting in the photo was green, I am assuming this is the white balance selection which was set on auto, what should it be set on? It looked horrible!

Cost me $3 for the glass at a hardware store.

thetrue · Dec 30, 2012

Why way too much sactown? I believe they make other colors, no?

skieur · Dec 30, 2012

tirediron said:
First of all, you CANNOT replicate an ND or G-ND in post; you can, apply a digital filter which mimicks SOME of the effects, however, if there are blown highlights or deep shadow in the original, there's NOTHING that can be done to recover this. HDR can be a workable solution, IF you're quick enough to get all of your shots before the sun moves significantly (this will depend on your location and skill). The best solution however is to have proper G-ND filters. I always suggest the 1-2-3 kit; that is a 1 stop, a two stop, and a 3 stop, which combined can give you up to six stops. If that doesn't do it, you probably shouldn't bother! Be aware that there are two different types of G-ND; hard transition and soft transition. The difference being the amount of area between the full value of the netural density portion of the filter and the zero value of the clear filter element. Hard transitions are great for seascapes where there is a flat, straight horizon. Soft transitions are better for uneven horizons such as mountains.

Christina's suggestion of the welding glass is a good one, but you will need to shoot in raw if you use it, since the welding glass imparts a strong green cast to the image which is difficult to correct otherwise. Remember though that this will reduce the intensity of the ENTIRE image, and generally with a sunset/rise/landscape, what we're trying to do is reduce the dynamic range of the scene by blocking some of the light from PART of the scene.

Actually you CAN replicate a G-ND in post but only within a certain range of over and under-exposure. Totally washed out highlights or totally dark shadow areas are beyond hope.

I would suggest a bracket burst on your D90 and then either decide which image to work on in post, or blend them into a HDR.

skieur

Garbz · Dec 30, 2012

sactown024 said:
Also I took some sunset photos today and all the lighting in the photo was green, I am assuming this is the white balance selection which was set on auto, what should it be set on? It looked horrible!

Depends on the filter. The welding filter I have does not pass anything other than green. They cut out well before the UV range blocking most of the blue, and well before the IR range blocking most yellow and red as well. No amount of colour balancing will ever fix what doesn't get to the sensor.

TCampbell · Dec 30, 2012

If you are SPECIFICALLY looking for a filter optimized for sunrise / sunset, then a "reverse GND" is probably ideal.

In a normal GND (hard or soft), half the filter is clear, then dark, then very dark. E.g.:

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 150, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]very dark[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]dark[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]moderately dark[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]clear[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]clear[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]clear[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

A reverse GND is still clear on bottom, but the tinting at the top is reersed. E.g.

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 150, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]moderately dark[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]dark[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]very dark[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]clear[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]clear[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]clear[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The idea being that with the sun at the horizon, you'll want the darkest level of tinting there. The upper sky isn't as bright as the horizon and therefore doesn't need the tinting to be as strong.

The filters aren't round thread-on... they're rectangular and they slide into a filter-holder (e.g. Coken style.)

For an example, see: Singh-Ray Filters: Galen Rowell Graduated Neutral Density Filters