The Coffee House

[vintagesnaps]

We went to DC the summer after my freshman year of college. I had torn a ligament in my ankle at school when I tripped out of bed where I'd been sitting and studying. But you know, some streakers were running thru the dorm courtyards and I had to get up and see (and caught my ankle in my speedy movement to the window). Saw the streakers on the way to the health center in the station wagon that was the university's attempt at an ambulance.

So that fiasco made the trip real fun! lol Actually it was pretty cool, seeing the guards changing at (I think) the Capitol isn't it? and the Washington Monument (although I didn't go up I think because my ankle was swelling and I was pretty much done for the day). I liked the Smithsonian, that big clock pendulum, and seeing some of the artwork in real life I'd just learned about in art history. It's one of those things that if you haven't been, you should go at least once.

So you hosers have fun if you go, I have no intention of attempting something like that! lol And I'd have allergies from those damn cherry blossoms anyway. Don't forget, didn't happen without pics!

 

[vintagesnaps]

Are we off the gold standard?? lol

 

[davidharmier60]

For quite some time!
And speaking of time Dave is about to check out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[smoke665]

USD is backed only by the US government, nothing concrete.

Actually I think this might be incorrect of both points. If you look at a bill it has no guarantee anywhere by anyone including the Federal Reserve that issued it. Instead it has the wording "This note is legal "tender" for debts, public and private". Currency isn't used because that would imply that it had been issued by the Government with some sort of guarantee and would require the government to maintain reserves for all the paper issued. Even worse it says at the top Federal Reserve "NOTE", as in "a promise to pay, an IOU". The paper has no value other than as a medium of exchange for goods and services. Kind of remind you of Bitcoin?

As I understand it we (the people) were duped to believe that the (notes/IOU's) were secured by "all the goods and services of the economy of a country within a given time period (GDP). Each little worker bee does a job (creates production from something) and in return is paid with paper that they can then use to purchase the production from other worker bees. So in essence it is the "production" of every little worker bee in the country that "guarantees" the paper. What is flawed and why we are currently in financial straits with national debt is that when the economy slows, and private spending dries up the only thing left is Government spending (which has produced nothing to begin with) thereby creating a spiral in which to stay afloat the government has to print more money (IOU's remember).

So while many think of the Bitcoin as voodoo money, we are clueless of our own security thinking we are somehow protected by the dollars in our pocket.

 

[JonA_CT]

I don’t think Gary was being sarcastic, Smoke. I’d expect that he agrees with you.

Usually, when trust or stability in a government that issues notes disappears, inflation hits. That’s why BREXIT caused the sterling pound to take a decent hit.

Without an government guarantee of any sort, bit coins are scary as hell to invest in.

 

[smoke665]

Without an government guarantee of any sort, bit coins are scary as hell to invest in.

Gary and I have a lot of things we agree on, and just enought that we disagree on to make our conversations stimulating.

Pull a bill out of your wallet and read what it says Jon, read what I said about the US Dollar, then tell me which is more secure and why.

 

[JonA_CT]

Without an government guarantee of any sort, bit coins are scary as hell to invest in.

Pull a bill out of your wallet and read what it says Jon, then tell me which is more secure and why. The US dollar is only as secure as the US economy, which as we all know tanked not that long ago.

Okay. Tell me why the bit coin is more secure.

 

[smoke665]

Okay. Tell me why the bit coin is more secure.

Oh I'm not saying it's more secure. I'm saying it's no "different" than the US dollar which we all believe is the gold standard of currencies when in reality it's not even a currency either.

Economics was not my strong suit in college because it made my head hurt LOL but I do have a layman understanding. The value of the US Dollar and security thereof is defined by the GDP as it fluctuates.

 

[JonA_CT]

Okay. Tell me why the bit coin is more secure.

Oh I'm not saying it's more secure. I'm saying it's no "different" than the US dollar which we all believe is the gold standard of currencies when in reality it's not even a currency either.

The difference is that the dollar hasn’t grown exponential in value over the last several weeks or months. The bit coin value has nearly double again since the beginning of December. There’s only one direction it’ll inevitably go...it can’t possibly sustain growth like that, and people are mortgaging their houses to buy into them.

 

[SquarePeg36 6]

Are people or investing in bitcoin? I thought you had to mine it.

 

[smoke665]

The difference is that the dollar hasn’t grown exponential in value over the last several weeks or months. The bit coin value has nearly double again since the beginning of December. There’s only one direction it’ll inevitably go...it can’t possibly sustain growth like that, and people are mortgaging their houses to buy into them.

No Jon I will agree with you on that point the US dollar has only declined in purchasing power since the swap in 1971. As an example the goods/services you might have bought in 1971 for $20 would now take $121 dollars, that's a cumulative inflation rate of 509%. Said another way your $20 that you socked away in the sock drawer in 1971 would only have the purchasing power of (if my math is right) $6.00 in today's world.

As to investing in Bitcoin, trading on the NASDAQ of the Bitcoin Price Index (NYXBT) was initiated in 2015. As of December of 2016 an investment of just under $800 in a share would now be worth $17395 as of close today. As to the security of the investment, it would not really be any more risky than any of the other indexes currently traded. By comparison Facebook was offered at $38/share in 2012 and as of today it was trading at $178.

 

[Gary A.]

USD is backed only by the US government, nothing concrete.

Actually I think this might be incorrect of both points. If you look at a bill it has no guarantee anywhere by anyone including the Federal Reserve that issued it. Instead it has the wording "This note is legal "tender" for debts, public and private". Currency isn't used because that would imply that it had been issued by the Government with some sort of guarantee and would require the government to maintain reserves for all the paper issued. Even worse it says at the top Federal Reserve "NOTE", as in "a promise to pay, an IOU". The paper has no value other than as a medium of exchange for goods and services. Kind of remind you of Bitcoin?

As I understand it we (the people) were duped to believe that the (notes/IOU's) were secured by "all the goods and services of the economy of a country within a given time period (GDP). Each little worker bee does a job (creates production from something) and in return is paid with paper that they can then use to purchase the production from other worker bees. So in essence it is the "production" of every little worker bee in the country that "guarantees" the paper. What is flawed and why we are currently in financial straits with national debt is that when the economy slows, and private spending dries up the only thing left is Government spending (which has produced nothing to begin with) thereby creating a spiral in which to stay afloat the government has to print more money (IOU's remember).

So while many think of the Bitcoin as voodoo money, we are clueless of our own security thinking we are somehow protected by the dollars in our pocket.

Gary stands by his statements. In 1971 President Nixon took the USD off the gold /silver standard, which changed the USD from a currency/promissory note which used gold/silver as a collateral into a currency/promissory note collateralized instead by the “Full Faith and Credit” of the government of the United States. Gold is a tangible and concrete collateral. Full Faith and Credit is a concept, ethereal, with no intrinsic value.

The common definition of currency is a note/promisssory note issued by a government for trade, as opposed to a note/promissory note issued by a bank/private entity.

The value of USD/Treasurys is based upon supply & demand and speculation by money traders. The greater the demand for USD and Treasury Notes the higher their value.

 

[davidharmier60]

Meanwhile every (almost) 'dollar' I make goes to pay bills. And in roughly 15 minutes I'm off to the races.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Frank F.]

I bought a new ironing board. My wife writes: "Surf's up!!!"

 

[Frank F.]

USD is backed only by the US government, nothing concrete.

Actually I think this might be incorrect of both points. If you look at a bill it has no guarantee anywhere by anyone including the Federal Reserve that issued it. Instead it has the wording "This note is legal "tender" for debts, public and private". Currency isn't used because that would imply that it had been issued by the Government with some sort of guarantee and would require the government to maintain reserves for all the paper issued. Even worse it says at the top Federal Reserve "NOTE", as in "a promise to pay, an IOU". The paper has no value other than as a medium of exchange for goods and services. Kind of remind you of Bitcoin?

As I understand it we (the people) were duped to believe that the (notes/IOU's) were secured by "all the goods and services of the economy of a country within a given time period (GDP). Each little worker bee does a job (creates production from something) and in return is paid with paper that they can then use to purchase the production from other worker bees. So in essence it is the "production" of every little worker bee in the country that "guarantees" the paper. What is flawed and why we are currently in financial straits with national debt is that when the economy slows, and private spending dries up the only thing left is Government spending (which has produced nothing to begin with) thereby creating a spiral in which to stay afloat the government has to print more money (IOU's remember).

So while many think of the Bitcoin as voodoo money, we are clueless of our own security thinking we are somehow protected by the dollars in our pocket.

Gary stands by his statements. In 1971 President Nixon took the USD off the gold /silver standard, which changed the USD from a currency/promissory note which used gold/silver as a collateral into a currency/promissory note collateralized instead by the “Full Faith and Credit” of the government of the United States. Gold is a tangible and concrete collateral. Full Faith and Credit is a concept, ethereal, with no intrinsic value.

The common definition of currency is a note/promisssory note issued by a government for trade, as opposed to a note/promissory note issued by a bank/private entity.

The value of USD/Treasurys is based upon supply & demand and speculation by money traders. The greater the demand for USD and Treasury Notes the higher their value.

Modern currency is debt based, so it is a belief system:
Debt: The First 5000 Years - Wikipedia