The Mirrorless Crap...

[Village Idiot]

Why do camera manufacturers invent crap like 'mirrorless' cameras.... and then put an 'electronic viewfinders' on them? Doesn't that nullify the entire point?

And yes I called them 'crap' because that's what I think they are.

Furthermore... what is the attraction to these ridiculous things anyway?

Hi! Ever hear of an Olympus OM-1? Know why it's popular? No? Well do some research and come back befor trashing an entire camera system that you've apparently never used. This post is about as ignorant as that one senator's "legitimate rape" comment.

Where's the facepalm emoticon?

 

[Village Idiot]

Discussion hasn't occurred quickly enough.

What specifically do you find so offensive about the EVIL system?

What he means is that he's never used them so he's going to give his expert opinion on them.

I've owned an E-P3 and currently own an OM-D. The E-P3 was great for me except that lack of the ability to use a viewfinder at the same time as a hot shoe. I really want to use a viewfinder and need a hot shoe for radio triggers. I gave the E-P3 to my dad when I got the OM-D and I love it; it's so much easier to carry around than a camera bag that weighs 30lbs from gear and basically shoots everything I don't get paid for except food reviews. It's a lot more discrete than a large DSLR with professional glass on it.

 

[unpopular]

what I love about the mirrorless debate is that it assumes that in 5 years there will be no improvement at all.

I see EVFs more like rangefinders than SLRs. Rangefinders have advantages, SLRs have advantages, EVFs have advantages.

 

[jake337]

Because people want digital versions of their leica M, nikon fm, canon ae1, etc, etc, etc.


You do realize that there were SLR and smaller, more transportable film cameras around at the same time too?

Don't you remember the disposable film camera? What were they for? Oh yeah, taking pictures...

 

[Jaemie]

Aaaaggghhh!! Stop bouncing back and forth between "SLR" and "DSLR" when you mean digital in both cases! Yes, technically they are both single lens reflex cameras, but SLR clearly denotes film, now.

 

[jake337]

One must also realize that, at some point in our future, we will see 35mm sized sensors being normal as a carry around p&s. At that time people will buy pro level cameras for their feature sets, not the size of the sensor.

 

[unpopular]

^^ yes, and at that point every pro camera will have 6x4.5cm sensor with avalanche CMOS and 24 bit ADC....

 

[mjhoward]

Yeah, but the whole point of 'mirrorless cameras' was to create a smaller, lighter, compact body. If manufacturers have accomplished that, why are they back to adding "digital viewfinders"? Adding size/weight to a camera that you just stripped down to nothing but a sensor in a plastic box is kinda stupid, isn't it?

I don't think the "whole point" of a mirrorless camera was to create a smaller, lighter, and more compact body; that is what P&S/Bridge cameras are for. The point, I believe, was to overcome the limitations of having a mirror; for example the vibration and noise caused by the mirror and what seems most are focused on now, limited access to the phase detect focusing module.

Additionally, if mirrorless cameras without viewfinders aren't selling well enough, and you have to add a viewfinder to make them appear more "camera like", was it really worth creating to begin with? Couldn't you have spent all that time and money and improved your existing SLR line?

The cost of a pentaprism is significantly higher than that of a LCD, so they are likely saving money even after R&D.

 

[unpopular]

The mirror really is a challenge for camera design, and presents a major scalability issue. Eventually traditional small-format camera builders will have to start producing larger-than-35mm format cameras to stay competitive. With this, the mirror must also be scaled.

You can only scale so much before the back focus distance must be increased, making 35mm frame lenses completely incompatible, even in a crop mode. Likewise, and more important, these cameras must remain compact and light enough for journalism and everyday photography. I think eventually Nikon and Canon will be forced to produce a camera similar to the Mamiya 7. Whether this is a EVF, Rangefinder or Hybrid (most likely), I don't know. But one thing for sure, it will be mirrorless.

 

[manaheim]

Yeah, but the whole point of 'mirrorless cameras' was to create a smaller, lighter, compact body. If manufacturers have accomplished that, why are they back to adding "digital viewfinders"? Adding size/weight to a camera that you just stripped down to nothing but a sensor in a plastic box is kinda stupid, isn't it?

I don't think the "whole point" of a mirrorless camera was to create a smaller, lighter, and more compact body; that is what P&S/Bridge cameras are for. The point, I believe, was to overcome the limitations of having a mirror; for example the vibration and noise caused by the mirror and what seems most are focused on now, limited access to the phase detect focusing module.

Uhh... that wasn't my memory of all the press around them. I recall it being "A quality camera that you can change lenses on and still be able to shove it in your purse." I mean we could argue all day long about what the intention was and not have an answer, but Wikipedia says...

"MILCs' initial purpose was to provide interchangeable lenses and DSLR-like quality imaging in a small body. To obtain this they replaced the TTL viewfinder with an electronic one. The size of sensors in MILCs varies with the more expensive having DSLR size sensors."

Mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which comes really damned close to what Chris was saying, I think.


That said, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me of the cost of manufacturing is less and all that is associated with it.

 

[unpopular]

"MILCs'

Moms I'd like to caress.

porn for sensitive, family-oriented, respectful types.

 

[Jaemie]

 

[Village Idiot]

"MILCs'

Moms I'd like to caress.

porn for sensitive, family-oriented, respectful types.

Mom's I'd Like to Cull

For the snuff junkies and such?

 

[unpopular]

... yikes.

 

[cgipson1]

"MILCs'

Moms I'd like to caress.

porn for sensitive, family-oriented, respectful types.

Mom's I'd Like to Cull

For the snuff junkies and such?

oooh.. anti-MWAC sentiment! Good man! (but only the truly bad ones!)