the myth - photographing across racial boundaries

[Osmer_Toby]

i absolutely agree with you. what i thought you were saying, though, is that you shot all skin tones on the same settings and got excellent results.

 

[voodoocat]

You are correct when using a reflective light meter. Since it exposes for middle gray, if your subject is dark you will need to compensate for how your meter reads the scene. But that can still be an issue regardless of the skin color.

What I'm referring to is measuring the light intensity with a flash or incident light meter. Or using a gray card.

I don't like guessing so I stay away from the reflective TTL meter. Especially when shooting portraits.

 

[drdan]

I have noticed that many people do not let nearly as much emotion show in their face around people they don't know well or don't trust. That might be more likely to happen with some african americans with a white photographer since there may be less trust and rapport.

I wonder if that isn't some of the basis for this "myth". If emotions aren't showing as freely it might appear that the photographer isn't as good.

 

[Dew]

when i shot with color on my digital (iso 80) ... i have a base... i start with about f4.6 or so .. shutter is 1/250 for a caucasian ... i start at 1/200 for black .... the hubby (the bright man ) ... sometimes i have to go up to about f6.o or so ...

but i check my results on the screen ... but usually i have to do 3 test shots .... but key is, i look at their skin in "real-life" ... when u have lights and flashes bouncing off the skin ... results can be altered

but these settings work best for me and i have a base, if the color is off a little, i will color correct based on whats sitting in front of me... i've photographed extremely light-skinned people and i will not make them look darker.. but i think after looking at yourself in the mirror for a number of yrs, people should be comfortable in their skin

my hubby is the only "caucasian" man that i've ever met in my life that doesnt believe in tanning ... and i think his bright milky skin is beautiful just the way it is

 

[ksmattfish]

I'm guessing that it would be a lot harder to bring out the facial details in a really dark skinned person.

I've shot folks with skin that ranges from an almost pearly transluscent white (vampire worshipping goth girlz) to very, very dark (foreign students from Africa and India near the equator). My experience has been that when comparing to a gray card or spot metering their faces and comparing that to an incidence meter reading I find that the very lightest skin tones measure at most 1.5 stop brighter than middle gray (zone 6 to 7), and the darkest skin tones measure no more than 1 stop under middle gray (zone 4). 95% of the folks I shoot (black, white, red, yellow, brown, whatever...) fall into zone 5 or zone 6. At least with BW film you can get full detail in zones 3 through 7. You won't begin losing detail until your shadows get to zone 2 (3 stops under middle gray). To me this is the only relevance that skin color has on photography; in almost all cases only a one stop difference.

Obviously race issues in dealing with the business part of photography has more to do with society than photography. In America we're only 30-35 years out from the civil rights movement, and I think that people think that it should all be solved by now, but it's such a huge, pervasive problem. It's going to take a long time and lots of effort to approach an ideal society where skin tone is only an issue to painters and photographers and whether you need to use sun block or you need to take vitamin D.

 

[Dew]

hehehe.. we've just finished watching the mini-series Roots a couple of days ago

5 mins ago, i had a african-american female call me about getting a portfolio done ... she didnt ask me the question *whew* ... maybe there is hope in the world after all

 

[voodoocat]

You are not changing the exposure based on the subjects skin color. You are altering the exposure based on what your light meter tells you is a proper exposure.

Say you have a lighting setup where the proper exposure is 1/250th f5.6. If you are photographing a caucasian person your exposure will be 1/250 f5.6. If you are photographing an African American your exposure will be 1/250 f5.6.

 

[Osmer_Toby]

heheh. Roots, eh? remove the Osmer and you have my name in the real world...

 

[jack]

sigh. if only we could all see the inner light of our fellow humans. i know this sounds corny, but it is absolutely true- we all have an inner light, and its hue is not dependant on skin color.

well it's the type of corniness that makes me think YES YES everytime.
totally !

this is a interesting thread Dew - you're wicked with your starting post.
i wasnt convinced about the fact of of skin-tones being able to truly affect
the exposure parameters - but Osmer_Toby has convinced me, that he
has 'been and seen' this done / done it - and it has to be considered.

 

[havoc]

Yes, but Toby was only his "good christian name" given by his master. You know i saw Roots once in grade school, and that scene and the scene where he gets his foot chopped off are the one two scenes i remember from that series. Oh wait not true, i remember him argueing with Fanta about her name i think. Interesting that those are the 2 scenes that one remembers in that very long mini series.
What might be even more interesting is the fact that Lavar Burton (Kunta Kinta) went on to play Georgi LaForge in Star Trek, talk about 2 complete opposite roles, the first total opression, and the second total equality. Of course i think the total lack of "human" race issues in Star Trek made it seem less real to me. People will always be afraid of what they don't fully understand, and people generally like to be with their own, which makes it very difficult to truely end racial issues.
I like to think of myself as an enlightened soul, but i must still admit that when i am walking down a dark alley in New Orleans, and i see two black guys hanging out, my first reaction is to quietly freak out. I wish i could be like, "hey brothas whats happening?" but honestly the first thing that goes through my head is, "will they try and slit my throat for my camera?" This would probably not go thru my mind if it was two white guys loitering in the alley.
In all reality apperances help to make this desision in my mind but its still a second thought, if the 2 blacks guys are wearing business suites, then that thought wouldn't go thru my head. If the 2 white guys are wearing bloody wife beater t-shirts and shaving themselves with a sharp knife then i would have reservations about going down that alley. That being said, i rarely see 2 black guys loitering in an alley with suites on, and i even more rarely see two white guys shaving with a knife. But i think it shows the point, that no matter how enlightened we appear to be or say we are, in our heads we sometimes still will see color first and the person second. And that will take along time to get over.

 

[havoc]

Oh Dew, i almost forgot, did Doxx get the email job? In the end did the guy care enough that your husband isn't black and decide to do business with him anyways? Or did your hubby say, God dammit, its too freakin late for you to call me looking to have this done, now i gotta go to bed.... LOL

In all honesty i have mixed feelings about people wanting to do business with others in their own race. This isn't an issue for mst white people, but to other races where opportunity isn't knocking as hard i can understand that want to practice this. Its a proven fact that African Americans and Latinos don't always get the same opportunities that white people, or even asians usually do. So is it wrong that someone that has "made it" at least to a certain degree desires to do business first with someone of his own race? I don't think so, but at the same time, i think it sets a dangerous precidence that can further promote racial separation. In an ideal world, the best person would get the job based on their work, not their skin tone. But this isn't an ideal world, and opportunity doesn't knock as often for some as it does for others.

Sorry i have been ranting today, perhapes i am bored, or perhapes i actually have something to say. I dunno, more likely i am turning this thread into something it doesn't need to be, so nevermind. i will go find something else to occupy my dorment brain.

 

[Dew]

in New York .. im seeing a lot of "reverse racism" ... we've only been here a yr and we only here comments from the african-americans... but i have a mutual friend that lives in Brooklyn, New York ... we got into a similar conversation (he's black ... im comfortable with this word, so feel free to use it )

i've never experienced racism personally, but im sure it happens .. what im experiencing now is a lot of reverse racism... and i have a multi-colored family ... i will do anything to defend it

if my hubby is not welcome anywhere, than neither am i ... now let me cook some food for the "Massa" before he gives me the whip :LOL:

*please dont take offence to my taking issues of racism lightly ... i cant really take something seriously if i think its foolish ... so if im being "politally incorrect" ... then .. somebody stop me :crazy:*

 

[Osmer_Toby]

whooo hoo, touched a nerve there, eh dude? ya know, they have medication for that.

anyway, i am getting the impression that i gave the wrong impression, ya know what i mean?

i am not a know-it-all, or a preacher, or a pc cop. i have trouble myself assigning respect to any that would claim to any of the three.

that said, i guess i have to confess to waxing poetic whenever i talk about photography- hence the inner light comment (i still believe it, tho)


as far as the rest, it was meant as a technical question, pure and simple.

 

[Dew]

nope havoc ... after my hubby said, "no, im not black." ... the guy hung up the phone :shock:

im black and being around people like this (black or white) makes me uncomfortable .... because someday we will have children (like soon, before i get old ) and they will have to go to school ... and the hubby may end up in jail ... but then again.. im the fiesty one

 

[jack]

it is so complex, i cant summarise my ideas fully at all.
well done to those who are getting it out.



erm... so i guess i'll just post some fun gifs :albino:


:?: