Thinking of abandoning Canon..... or not!

bINGLe · Apr 21, 2017

Hi all,

I think we've all likely been in this situation for one reason or another: looking to upgrade but finding the choice overwhelming, and then getting caught in a loop of constantly re-checking camera specs against rivals to see which is best!

I'm on the verge of turning professional: currently have a full time job, getting more interest in the photography business i started up. More challenging assignments and wanting to give better results.

With some luck and post processing trickery, I've got away with a Canon 760d and some semi decent glass til now.
However, I'm looking to upgrade to get better results (see requirerments below).
As I'm looking at full frame, it makes most of my lenses redundant (either EFS lenses or won't give as good results on a FF body).
This means that I'm relatively open to abandoning Canon if the right manufacturer is worth switching to.

What I want to achieve:
-Higher resolution pictures
-Better image quality
-Better low light performance
-More dynamic range

What i will use it for:
-Live music events
-Commercial (headshots and corporate events)
-Portraiture
-Some general street and architecture

What I've considered looked at so far (and begun to agonise over!):
Canon 5D iv
Nikon D810
Sony A99 ii
Holding out for the Canon 6D ii specs

Budget:
Around £3000 for camera and first good quality lens (similar to a Canon 24-70 2.8 L)
Although cheaper would be good, or cheaper DSLR and more good glass to put in front of it.

So, your your thoughts on budget, options so far, advice on dos/donts, any other brands or models you would advise on, best lenses/camera brand combo, etc.

PaulWog · Apr 21, 2017

If money were no object I'd probably prefer Canon over Nikon by a small margin. But really it's a toss-up in the long-term for a professional, especially if you don't have any specific reasons to go for one or the other. I haven't kept up with Sony, their stuff is great for prosumers, but I'm not sure whether they're a safe bet long-term for a professional (considering you're on a budget and switching around would be a financial hassle I imagine).

Canon certainly has a better track record for not having huge warranty issues. Nikon's D600 and D750 both were blunders in my opinion... totally lost faith in the company's ability to get things right on release.

jaomul · Apr 21, 2017

None of the stuff you mention requires super fast autofocus tracking or fast frames per second.

A guy frame camera does make sense for all your requirements.

Any one of the cameras you mentioned would be up to the job. I'd probably go 5d in your case, surely you have triggers, lights etc that are canon specific, why get rid of it all.

It would imo make sense to sell all your lenses, buy a 5d and keep the 760 as a back up as that will use all your EF lenses going fwd.

Opinions though are like something that everyone has

bINGLe · Apr 21, 2017

I have to admit, I'm leaning towards the 5D iv.

I'm used to Canon, but the only thing that had put me off was some bad press (various trusted reviewers and hearsay) recently, saying that Canon were falling behind the game a little.
Also that sensor-wise, Canon are a little behind Nikon and Sony - in terms of MP and image quality.

Would either of you (and anyone else) put any faith in these kind of comments?

-
@PaulWog, I also have my doubts about Sony long term. The A99 ii sounds excellent on paper and got excellent reviews. Also DXO seem to rate their lenses (but mostly on the high MP A99 ii, which i'm not sure how it skews the results), so was interested.

-
@jaomul, you're right, do have some Canon peripherals, but if i'm in the market to upgrade camera and lenses, then these would pale into insignificance in terms of cost.
I've also considered keeping the 760D as backup. The resale cost now isn't huge, so again wouldn't make a massive contribution to a 5D + lenses.

Braineack · Apr 21, 2017

PaulWog said:
Nikon's D600 and D750 both were blunders in my opinion... totally lost faith in the company's ability to get things right on release.

you misspelled: 7Dm2

astroNikon · Apr 21, 2017

I don't have a Canon but I've always liked Canon (used to use a AE1).
But I shoot Nikon
and I love Mirrorless but when I bought back into the game Mirrorless just wasn't there (but SONY, FujiFilm has made great strides).

I used 2 Full Frame Nikons - D750 and D600 until recently when I replaced the D600 with a D500 DX (7D mII competition).

Going to FX makes all the sense in the world to immediately improve the items on your list with low light, etc. It's just more flexible.

Canon has the 5d line which confuses me with all their various options, but I'm sure they are great cameras.

SONY, who makes most (if not all) of Nikons sensors has made great strides too with their recently announced a9 (or something) that costs $4,500 USD - ouch. Though looks to be a fabulous camera. Though with all the focus points, etc seems to be geared to support sports. If you don't need high FPS then the 7dm2 and 1dx can be left out of the equation.

But it still doesn't answer which manufacturer to jump too.

I had no links to any, and had unlimited funds I'd try the SONY. But then, if I had unlimited funds and I didn't like it I could swap to Nikon or Canon anyways .. so that doesn't help. LOL

But the main issue of swapping is the ergonomics and menu. If you are used to Canon just holding a Nikon can be uncomfortable. Plus, the buttons on the top right for ISO, etc are right there on the Canon and not all are on Nikon. It depends upon the convenience factor. Luckily Nikon is now putting the ISO button up there now on newer cameras and Canon has had it there for ever.

SONY menus are just disasterous by nature for some odd reason.
If I was a Canon shooter I'd probably stick with Canon. Though you'll find several shooters here who went from Canon to Nikon and never regretted it.

astroNikon · Apr 21, 2017

Braineack said:
PaulWog said:

Nikon's D600 and D750 both were blunders in my opinion... totally lost faith in the company's ability to get things right on release.

Click to expand...

you misspelled: 7Dm2

forgot about the 5d m3 recalls too when it first came out.
blastphemy !!

ooh, and the 1Dx recall ...
and the D800
Ford, Chrylser, GM, Toyota, Honda, Subaru ...

chuasam · Apr 21, 2017

of all the questions to ask when going pro, what camera to use should be amongst the last.

Figure out your business plan and what niche you really want to do first.

CdTSnap · Apr 21, 2017

It's funny still seeing he comments about Sonys being "prosumer" lol

Ever since the A7R2 release they over took Canon or Nikon and I made the switch. I have not one single thing I regret about it.

Until you try one for real you can't know how much better they are it's incredible

I bought on me A7R2 and I was going to keep my D810 as the "real serious camera"

That weekend I shot 2 weddings in a row and I couldn't believe it. The Nikon just couldn't keep up in any aspect. Low light both focus and noise the Sony killed it, functionality is amazing once you've had a day or 2 with it to set it up, and the lenses... my god they are magic.

And This is coming from someone that had the best Nikons and the best lenses m, even the 105mm f1.4.

Nikon and Canon are old school and old tech. Give it a year maybe 2 and they will be seriously struggling to stay on board.

Sony have already over taken Nikon in sales

Sent from my iPhone using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app

astroNikon · Apr 21, 2017

CdTSnap said:
It's funny still seeing he comments about Sonys being "prosumer" lol

Ever since the A7R2 release they over took Canon or Nikon and I made the switch. I have not one single thing I regret about it.

Until you try one for real you can't know how much better they are it's incredible

I bought on me A7R2 and I was going to keep my D810 as the "real serious camera"

That weekend I shot 2 weddings in a row and I couldn't believe it. The Nikon just couldn't keep up in any aspect. Low light both focus and noise the Sony killed it, functionality is amazing once you've had a day or 2 with it to set it up, and the lenses... my god they are magic.

And This is coming from someone that had the best Nikons and the best lenses m, even the 105mm f1.4.

Nikon and Canon are old school and old tech. Give it a year maybe 2 and they will be seriously struggling to stay on board.

Sony have already over taken Nikon in sales

Sent from my iPhone using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app

I think I read somewhere where SONY sells more FullFrame cameras than either Canon or Nikon.

CdTSnap · Apr 21, 2017

Wouldn't surprise me

Sent from my iPhone using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app

chuasam · Apr 21, 2017

the only thing preventing me from switching to Sony is my GF.
She's a Nikon loyalist who'd put a pillow on my face in my sleep if I switched. She depends on NPS at big events and loves her D810 more than she loves me.
Also we share a pool of gear so we'd both have to switch.

My biggest reason for liking Sony is smaller cameras and better high ISO

lundrog · Apr 21, 2017

I would consider the Sony option for full frame. But I would also recommend the Fuji lineup, while not full frame , they are super cameras.

Derrel · Apr 21, 2017

Back when I had a lot of money and shot a lot more photos that I do now, I bought $10k worth of Canon gear to give it a try and see if I could leave Nikon. I bought a 5D, 70-200 L IS USM, 135./2, 50/1.8.50/1.4, 20D, 18-125 Sigma, 80-400 Sigma )S, 135/2.8 Soft Focus. 85/1.8 EF, 24-105 L IS USM, 580 EX-II, right around I guess $10k in canon to go along with my Niooin D2x and 60 Nikon lenses accumulated over 25+ years. Ehhhh...it was a mixed bag...at tTHAT time, the Canon 5D was full frame, and I had had 1.5x digital since 2001, so half a decade shootjing only crop-frame and I REALLY wanted the 5D...Nikon would not release a ful-frame digitial until 18 months later.

Let's put it this way: I tried Canon with a FULL kit: two bodies, flash, and multiple top--grade lenses. It was "okay", but the sensor tech was soon lacking, and Nikon bypassed Canon in 2007.Peoiple keep saying "the companies go back and forth and leapfrog." Uhhhh, NO, they do not....Canon has been behind since 2009 and has not yet caught up....they keep churning out outdated sensors in newer and newer bodies.

I found the 70-200/2.8 lenses of each maker good. I had high-end Nikon prime teles 85/105/135/200-2,300/2.8 and 300/4...my personal feeling was that the Nikon lenses were sleeker in feeling and handling, and the Canon;s were clubby and ugly white and drew a huge amnount of attention. Canon's 135/2 L was a spectacular performer! Nikon's 200/2 VR was one of the world's FINEST lenses, everm, and I had it for over a decade...Nikon's new $400 85/1.8 G series is one of the best lenses in the world at under $3,999.95.

The REAL ISSUE though was the Nikon D3x for me....perhaps the finest machine ever made as a camera...3,500 frame battery life (seriously three thousand five hundred or MORE shots on one charge...before the Japanese li-ion battery restrictions were put in due to aircraft./airline paranoia). The issue was the SONY Exmor sensor technology: Canon is STILL way,way behind, eight years later...

There is NO comparison...the new Sony and Nikon ISO-invariant sensors are **incredible** in the way they allow you to shoot images. Canon STILL lags behind, by a significant margin, and note the use of the word "significant", as in "meaningful", not as in subtantial, but meaning in a way that has real significance. The ability to shoot almost without regard to the ISO level or the shutter/f-stop speeds one must set is why Sony and Nikon cameras have such loyal followers. Canon sensors simnply can NOT come even close to this. (Research ISO invariance, and go to dPreview and see the actualk test comparisons of camera from different makers.)

I personally like the legacy lens compatibility of the Nikon F-mount and the higher-end Nikons that can and do meter with Ai-S manual focus lenses, 1980'a and 1990'sAF and AF-D lenses, and the newest lenses as well.

Compare a Canon 5D-III against a used Nikon D600 at $700....the SOny-0made sensor in the cheapo Nikon blows away the "pro" Canon....Under-expose the Canon by four stops and "lift the exposure" in post processing? Uh....no way, it's a cr*P image, riddled with noise and banding; the Sony-sensored cameras? No sweat! It can be a black image, and you can "lift" it in post, and make a good image from it. Canon has not "leapfrogged" anybody since Sony invented Exmor tech, years ago.

I have grown tired of the oft-repeated cannard that the camera makers "leapfrog"....that is BS...there has been a HUGE boost in sensor capability and dynamic range, and the arrival of true ISO invariance, and it comes with Sony-sensored cameras. Canon is still grappling with outdated senor fabrication technology, and has been unwilling to invested the hundreds of millions of Yen to come even close to what Sony invested. Sony makes its sensors on steppers that Nikon makes.

The Sony Exmor-type sensors are a HUGE advantage to the beginning, intermediate,and experienced shooter! Caon cameras and lenses are fine, fine gear...it's just the sensors that are behind the times. Adequate, yes, but not "exceptional". You'll hear Canon fanboys try to dispute the above points, but the dynamic range tests and the ISO invariance tests show the truth.