Tree

sleist · Oct 20, 2013

amolitor, you seem like a smart guy who knows a lot about photography.
However, I've seen little evidence to show that you know how to put all this knowledge into practice.
There's nothing wrong with that, but I do get a bit discouraged by your repeated deflecting of criticism with claims you are misunderstood.
It comes off as defensive and elitist.

It's unfortunate, because I think you could be quite good if you'd just quit pretending you know everything and listen a little.

amolitor · Oct 20, 2013

I'm sorry, where am I deflecting criticism? Especially here, in this thread? Please supply quotes. Thanks.

P.S. I know which thread you're thinking of, which isn't this one, and I know you think I was deflecting criticism there. You're wrong.

amolitor · Oct 20, 2013

I don't like sushi. That some people do like it is, at an emotional level, at a gut level, incomprehensible to me. I think but.. it's just gross, ugh. Intellectually of course I realize that it's a big world. I don't hate you if you like sushi. In fact, I married a girl who likes sushi. She's pretty ok!

Some people work very hard to make pictures which are copies of Ansel Adams. They stand where he stood, etc. They make beautiful pictures that look just like Ansel Adams pictures. This is incomprehensible to me in just the same way, but more power to those guys. My failure to "get" why they do what they do matters not one whit. They're having a good time and making things that they like. Go, guys, go! I heartily approve of people following their hearts and muses. They love sushi! They're happy when they eat it, and those smiles make me happy!

Some people work hard to get this pictures on Flickr Explore. Their joy when they succeed is wonderful, and it makes me happy too. They love sushi! I find the desire to make such pictures, of which I submit the subject of this thread is, more or less, of the type, incomprehensible. But, follow your heart, follow your muse, make pictures that please and delight you!

I don't like sushi. You may consider this picture to be roughly equivalent to me going out for sushi with a friend, to that sushi joint that she loves, that makes good sushi not the obviously bad sushi I have had, because I hate sushi. I still don't like sushi, but i'm happy that you guys do. Enjoy the sushi! I'm sorry I don't like it.

I like making pictures that are difficult to love, but they don't look like anyone else's pictures. I just don't like sushi.

manaheim · Oct 20, 2013

A-man...

I see a lot of elements in this shot that are interesting, or elements that could have been assembled for possibly something killer, but it feels like it juuuuuuuuuuuuust missed. That said, I'm impressed you got it this far because I would have just dismissed it as "something that caught my eye but that I couldn't make a picture of it."

Specifically, I like...

- The angle of the road opposed to the angle of the trunk
- The bright yellows opposing the dark reds
- The intersection of dead man-man pavement and cement, being over-run by leaves and a tiny little tree making it's way to lighten up the space

The crop is tough for me. I hate square crops and I think they make most images very static.

The top is too tight for the tree, I think, though I suppose you could argue it helps the "busting out" motif.

Still... neat to see and neat to think about. And I like seeing your images as I do hear a lot from you but don't see enough of your work.

sleist · Oct 20, 2013

amolitor said:
I'm sorry, where am I deflecting criticism? Especially here, in this thread? Please supply quotes. Thanks.

No thanks. I said what I had to say. If you disagree, I'm fine with that.

limr · Oct 20, 2013

Well, I know what I'm having for lunch today

I've got no problem with you not liking this shot or ones like it, but I'm curious about the purpose of even taking the shot and then posting for comments. Is it simple intellectual curiosity, trying to understand what other people might see in the shot? Was it an attempt to find out more in general about people's criteria for good shots without putting a shot you actually like on the line?

As for me, I wouldn't even know if this tree shot is "populist" or not. I suppose I assumed it wasn't because it wasn't slathered in Instagram filters and heavy processing.

amolitor · Oct 20, 2013

To prove that I can? To anyone who cares, which is mainly me.

pgriz · Oct 20, 2013

Part of the challenge of picture-taking, is to convince the viewer of your point of view or perspective. It's not about being the "arteeest", but giving the viewer the necessary references points so that they "naturally" see what you see. Easily said, not so easy to put into practice. And let's not get into the sanctity of photography as a purveyor of truth - we all know that photographic skill is to present a certain perspective, eliminate from the frame everything that doesn't support that perspective, and if we can't eliminate it, then clone it out or otherwise de-emphasize it in postprocessing. This is no different from what we observe in journalistic writing, where the journalist, either consciously or unconsciously selects the facts that support a point-of-view. Or take the actions of the painter who paints a certain abstraction (emphasizing certain elements and completely ignoring others), with the goal of conveying an interpretation of the scene. Certainly, in the areas of commercial or political presentation, there is often the barest of connection between the "message" and the reality.

With respect to the imagery that makes YOU (Andrew) happy, it's your sandbox, and you do want you want (as we all do). When we start to share our creativity, then we can expect a bell-curve of reaction. If my preference is on one side of that bell-curve, then probably very few will "get" what I'm doing. If my imagery is of the type that falls smack in the middle of that bell-curve of esthetic, then lots of people will like it. It doesn't mean it's great - it just means that the reference points I use in the image are recognizable to most. And that is what I think you're referring to when you mention the sharing on Flickr.

Then there's the issue of "pretty" vs. "great" . In my view, a "great" image should provoke emotion and/or a "wow" reaction. Ideally, the image should become a window on a deeper truth, and the viewer should read into the image. What they read may or may not be what the photographer intended, but certainly, a "great" image should cause engagement with the viewer. Good photojournalism and street photography do that. Other genres of photography don't pull on the emotions quite so obviously, but I can think of many images that caused me to stop and look - really look. And then come back and look again. Now that's not to say that "pretty" isn't desirable on its own - but it's eye candy - pleasing, but not necessarily very nutritious. On the other hand, "great" pictures can also be hard pictures to look at - especially if they highlight something that the majority of us don't want to think about. Of course, not all "great" images have to leave your conscience raw and hurting - sometimes they are great because they open our eyes (and our minds and even, occasionally, our souls) to some aspect of the world.

Personally, I have a pretty clear idea of when I'm making "pretty" shots, and when I'm trying for that "stretch" image. I haven't yet made a "stretch" image that I'm really happy with (and I've been at it for more than 50 years), but that's part of the challenge. By the same token, I haven't yet written the short story that would make people change their religion or profession, but who knows...

Parker219 · Oct 20, 2013

^ Well I'm glad you cleared THAT up.

amolitor · Oct 20, 2013

Ok, so, nobody listen to me any more. Listen to pgriz. Thanks for that awesomeness.

pgriz · Oct 20, 2013

Ummm... too many words, right?

PixelRabbit · Oct 20, 2013

pgriz said:
Ummm... too many words, right?

Nope, all the right ones arranged wonderfully!

mishele · Oct 20, 2013

Paul to the rescue!!

amolitor · Oct 20, 2013

And for all those who offered critique:

1) Thank you.
2) I agree. I happen to think this is a good picture, of its type. I made it that way, and I am proud of the work. It's just.. it's sushi, and I don't like sushi.