What is with all these beginners with $1000+ cameras?

[Alex_B]

There was only one reason why I did not start with a very expensive setup decades ago ... and that was: I did not have the money then

We should keep in mind that there is lots of people out there for whom $10000 or even 30000 are really nothing special, people who do not know how to spend their money and what to buy. I think it is better when they buy really expensive photography gear, even if most of it stays stowed away since they have not use for it, than if they spent it on excessive drug abuse or food until they explode...

 

[JIP]

Yes, you are right. danmass...if it works for you, then go for it. Like I said, a thousand bucks really is not the big deal I was trying to point out...it is the total noob buying the $10,000 (body alone!) camera with absolute zero experience...that was my beef...just downright silly. I mean, check it out, I have a D40, SB400 Speedlight and the 55-200mm VR zoom lens, I also have a total set up a little over $1,000.

But the again..I have seen much, much worse.

Seriously though, happy shooting to you too and I wish you that "golden eye" and that all your images come out the way you hope they do!

Can you explain why people should not be free to buy exactly anything they want.

 

[skyvue2]

Explain why people should not be free? What do you mean? Am I the Law or something???...oh, and never within my last 100+ posts have I ever even remotely stated that people should not be allowed to buy whatever they want...now this is all becoming very silly.
People can buy whatever they so choose, providing it is legal products or substances, if not, then there may be an issue with legalities. But asking me why I do not allow an individual to purchase something they so choose? I have never stated that I was the final approving authority on anyone's purchases, apart from my very own. Seems like a very silly and arrogant question.
Actually, this very question, placed in the context that it was...is exactly what I was talking about.

"I am rich, and you're not! naa-naa-boo-boo!" or "Don't tell me what I can or can't buy, it's not my fault I am richer and therefore better than you are!"

...come on, people....I fear this poor thread will become infinite simply because the "better than you are" that have "better equipment than you do, simply because I am richer than you are" individuals that keep posting in here just HAVE to have the last word. Obviously part of a silver-spoon-in-mouth upbringing, teaching them from a very early age that they are soooo special and the entire rest of the world is scum and beneath them. Such a shame, and exactly what I have been talking about for the last 100+ posts in this thread.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with what someone should have their own liberties to purchase for whatever price...it has to do with the arrogant, egotistical and selfish attitudes that certain members seem to have in relation to their photographic equipment.

I personally think an individual is very silly and spoiled to state..."hmm, let me try this new thing, i'll get into photography today!" and then go right out and spend $2000 or a lot more on a complete set up...then guess what everyone....here comes the GRAND FINALE......the very next week, wake up one morning and decide "photography sucks!, I am tossing all of this in the trash!"

...our disposable and arrogant world never ceases to amaze me

...and everyone reading these posts can very clearly see exactly what I am talking about by the arrogance and egoism clearly expressed within the last 100+ posts by certain members. Unfortunately, it's a very sad world we live in.

 

[Alex_B]

"I am rich, and you're not! naa-naa-boo-boo!" or "Don't tell me what I can or can't buy, it's not my fault I am richer and therefore better than you are!"

no one said so here

better is the word you try to read between the lines...

..it has to do with the arrogant, egotistical and selfish attitudes that certain members seem to have in relation to their photographic equipment.

haven't really seen much of that attitude in here .. strange.

I personally think an individual is very silly and spoiled to state..."hmm, let me try this new thing, i'll get into photography today!" and then go right out and spend $2000 or a lot more on a complete set up...then guess what everyone....here comes the GRAND FINALE......the very next week, wake up one morning and decide "photography sucks!, I am tossing all of this in the trash!"

All I am sayig is: So what? If those $2000 have the same meanign to him as $20 mean to you and me ... so what, let him buy and later throw away or give it as a gift to me or sell it second hand for a reduced price. Of course he wasted some of his personal money then. But who would really care?

It is only sad if people are talked into getting something too expensive, and if this is really a financial burden to them. But if it causes no financial pain to someone, then I could not care less

...our disposable and arrogant world never ceases to amaze me

normally cameras are not disposed but sold second or third hand... or are borrowed by nephews who enjoy photography more than the original customer who wasted his money :lmao:

...and everyone reading these posts can very clearly see exactly what I am talking about by the arrogance and egoism clearly expressed within the last 100+ posts by certain members. Unfortunately, it's a very sad world we live in.

been looking for it... but without a certain bias it seems hard to find it

And if you do not like one or two individuals, just put them on ignore

 

[skyvue2]

Trust me, Alex B, I understand what you are trying to say. I also understand that most cameras are passed down to other family members when an individual upgrades or whatnot. We do live in a disposable world though. People buy houses and live in them for 5 years then move again. Rarely anyone in America pays off entire car notes anymore, they sell or trade in before the warranty runs out. These are just two of very many examples out there. And you are right, no one said the "better than you" thing, but the attitude is just as apparent.

It's just typical, I started into photography with the purchase of my D40 Nikon about a month ago. I love the camera and really enjoy learning about the different composition techniques, filter effects, framing subjects, aperture and shutter speed to name a few. I personally am very impressed with this little camera...it's just so typical that certain individuals (not just the ones in this thread, but throughout the entire forum) slam the camera calling it cheap, garbage, plasticky, "not as good as mine" and so forth. I like what Jon the Elder wrote a few posts back...

I don't consider the few handful of newbies that wander into this forum as being "all" of anything.

If they are from the U.S., then they have been trained from birth to buy or whine their way to the biggest/shiniest(?)/most expensive anything. This guarantees success, popularity, envy, local fame,etc..

...and I find this typical of not only certain members in TPF, but life in general. See...if I also had a Nikon D300 with 5 top of the line Nikkor and Sigma Lenses and a remote flash slave unit, then...and ONLY then...can I be in the elite "smacktalkers" in the forum here that "know what they are talking about" simply because of the equipment they own.

I love it though....guarantees success, popularity, envy, local fame and Demi-God status!

Today's world.....soooooo true!

 

[Alex_B]

People buy houses and live in them for 5 years then move again.

Not people's fault though ... mostly they have to move for the job.

Rarely anyone in America pays off entire car notes anymore, they sell or trade in before the warranty runs out.

Yes, and someone else buys it... so what?

but the attitude is just as apparent.

No, I do not think so. I think this is your bias which makes you see such an attitude behind every not so precisely phrased comment. Yo u like your camera, and that is what it is all about. So you should be happy. Some people might say they would not like your camera for some reason or another ... so what? Of course cameras do have shortcomings in certain areas of application, and if someone cannot live with such a shortcoming, then he might really need/want a more expensive camera. Others just buy the best of the best, as you correctly mentioned, since they either want to brag with it, or just want to make sure, or for whatever reason. But it does not really matter.

Hey, I have been approached by Nikon shooters in public, who told me I should buy a proper camera (mine is not a Nikon ), and they were smiling an making jokes about me all the time. If such a thing happens to you, then you have all rights to be really upset and kick their behinds

And not everyone advising you to get a more expensive camera, does so because he wants to show you he is better than you, some just know of some shortcomings of yours, and they falsely assume those would affect you. Or they think you might grow out of it too quickly, because they see your talent or love for photography.

 

[skyvue2]

Alex B, I take it you have spent extensive time living in the US? (and no, I am not talking about a college semester, a vacation or a 2 week photo shoot in the US) I see you are German and born and raised here in Germany.
Not most Americans are selling their houses due to jobs. I see you are biased also and set into your ways. I am not here to change your way of thinking, so why try and change mine? Living here in Germany...there are far more economy issues than the States have. 60% tax immediately from your paycheck, then 19% tax on everything you purchase, I am frankly amazed anyone in Germany owns a camera. Sorry, I just resent foreigners try to tell me US economy issues, when Europeans attempt to debate or discuss US Government issues and act like they know how exactly the US works..I do find that amusing indeed. I think Germany, along with the rest of Europe in general, is still sore with us over the oil issue...

but no disrespect intended Alex, we're all one big worldly community, right?

 

[kundalini]

Explain why people should not be free? What do you mean? Am I the Law or something???...oh, and never within my last 100+ posts have I ever even remotely stated that people should not be allowed to buy whatever they want...

<--------- I see 18.

"I am rich, and you're not! naa-naa-boo-boo!" or "Don't tell me what I can or can't buy, it's not my fault I am richer and therefore better than you are!"...

I too failed to be able to find this attitude within this thread.

Such a shame, and exactly what I have been talking about for the last 100+ posts in this thread.

<--------- I see 18.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with what someone should have their own liberties to purchase for whatever price...it has to do with the arrogant, egotistical and selfish attitudes that certain members seem to have in relation to their photographic equipment.

It comes across you have this very attitude you so vehemently are directing towards the responders to this thread....only in reverse. You do give the impression of trolling for arguments just for arguments sake. You have plainley stated your opinion on this matter, but yet each time another reply is posted that contradicts your opinion, you feel the need to counter attack with the exact same message only mixing up the words a little. I get the impression that it may simply a case of sour grapes on your part or you just want to continue spouting your egocentric rantings. Either way, it has become quite boring.

 

[mortallis288]

I used film for about a year, then for graduation with most of the money i got to attend school and buy food with i bought a D-80. I hated the way the D-40 feels, i thought it was tiny and felt like a toy in my hands so i spent the 1.3k on the D-80 and the lens, as did my dad. My dad hardly ever turns it off fully auto, but he loves using it. As he said, "you can tell the difference between my point and shoot and my d-80.'' I think you can because he sets the shot up with his D-80 and not just point and shoots. He also did not want the d-40 because he hated the feel of it.

 

[skyvue2]

I don't find it quite boring, I find most of this entertaining. This is a forum for discussion, and providing the discussion is clean and not vulgar, we can discuss whatever we so choose. It has not gone off topic. When a member writes something in contradiction to my ideals and beliefs, I am allowed to contradict what was written. I read nowhere in the Terms of Servce that this forum was a dictatorship. Thank You for your input though, it was your opinion.

 

[Alex_B]

well those people in the US which i know personally, they all usually sell their houses when they have to move for the job. And they move quite often. but OK, maybe I know just people from a small sub group of US citizens. So my statistics might be limited here. But that was not my main point anyway

Alex B, I take it you have spent extensive time living in the US? (and no, I am not talking about a college semester, a vacation or a 2 week photo shoot in the US) I see you are German and born and raised here in Germany.
Not most Americans are selling their houses due to jobs. I see you are biased also and set into your ways.

 

[kundalini]

I don't find it quite boring, I find most of this entertaining. This is a forum for discussion, and providing the discussion is clean and not vulgar, we can discuss whatever we so choose. It has not gone off topic. When a member writes something in contradiction to my ideals and beliefs, I am allowed to contradict what was written. I read nowhere in the Terms of Servce that this forum was a dictatorship. Thank You for your input though, it was your opinion.

Yes, that was my opinion. However, the entire discussion within this thread was for an opinion, as laid out by the OP's initial post. Obviously, facts, conjecture and out right misleading information can weave themselves in and out of an opinion oriented thread.

I will give you one fact and a follow up opinion.
[FACT]Out of your 20 posts you have tallied thus far, 15 have been within this thread.
[OPINION] I would think that as a newbie with a new D40, much more entertaining would be how to actually use that equipment by asking questions about your gear that you are unsure of it's use. At this time, I am not sensing a positive contributory effort on your part to the TPF community as a whole. I certainly hope this to be otherwise in the near future. This can be ventured in a number of ways and only you can decide on how it is to be accomplished.

 

[Fally]

Skyvue2,

I don't mean to speak for kundalini, but I think he's saying that you are becoming boring in this thread with your soapboxing. You've provided your "same" opinion in the last 2 days of posts and really, we get it.

What do we get? You're apparently bitter by these $1000 newbs. Get over it.

This thread was more entertaining when everyone was chiming in on stuff, but now that it's basically just you soapboxing, it's getting old, fast.

If you don't like something in life, make a change for it. Don't try and construct an army of individuals to make you feel better about your situation in life. I think you were fishing for this "army" and I don't think you got it. If you don't like where you live, move. If you don't like the job that you have that enables you to buy this stuff, then get a new job. Don't put it on the rest of us that are happy in our situation.

/rant off

Fally

 

[mrodgers]

Not most Americans are selling their houses due to jobs.

Nope, most people around me are selling their houses because they can no longer afford them.

The working class is huge in the US. The "richness" as I know the UK/European crowd seems to think of the US is based on an average. Unfortunately, there are very few at the average. The average is made up of lower income and higher income with very few in between. Good jobs are disappearing to overseas and the ones that are left are giving nothing for it anymore. I have barely seen a raise in years.

Products are being produced cheaper and cheaper, while being sold for more and more. Products of today are throw-aways. Back when I was young in my parent's generation of parenthood, you purchased a product and it lasted. Now, you have to mow your yard? Your lawn mower lasts a few years then gets replaced. The lawn mowers of yesterday lasted nearly forever. Appliances, you purchased a stove, refridgerator, cloths washer, you were good for 20 years. But, the efficiency of these products are far better now. Unfortunately, the quality is not. Plastic and far inferior parts ensure that it will break in a few years time. And the cost of fixing the stuff that breaks is nearly what it costs to just "throw away" and purchase a new item.

Since the price of things are so drastically rising, people buy the cheaper stuff, which lasts even less time. People just can't afford to live and do the things they need to do.

25 years ago, when I was a child, I knew one kid who's parents both worked. Today, out of the hundreds of adults I work with whom have children, I know maybe 4 or 5 who have one parent staying home with their kids. It simply can not be done. I currently make more per year at a low paying production job than my father did before he passed as the vice president of a small corporation. That salary now is peanuts compared to what it takes just to keep a household together with nothing extra except the TV programing and the internet staying on. Everything else and more in a paycheck goes towards housing expenses.

If you have the money to spend thousands on camera equipment, more power to you. There is a giant gap between those struggling to pay the bills and those who can toss money around like it's pocket change. The reason you see a question such as "What is with all these beginners with $1000+ cameras" is because the one's who can afford it are the ones that are here. The ones that can not afford it, are not here because.... they can't afford it. I am in a big minority who are here interested about photography, but can only afford a cheap camera. Generally, those like me with the cheap cameras are those who are not interested in photography, but only use a camera for "snapshot" pictures at family functions and stuff.

 

[skyvue2]

OK..OK.

It seems as though my opinion is not worth a cent, but everyone else's is. Having envy for everyone who owns a $1000 camera is very far from the truth. I am very far off from poor. If I wanted a $6000 camera, I would simply go and buy one, but why? I would rather learn on the entry level to become comfortable with the controls and skilled at composition before moving up to a more complex and hi-tec camera. I just cannot understand for the life of me why I am being castigated for simply being the owner of a D40??? This makes no sense. "Soapboxing", as you put it, about my personal opinion seems to be a crime, where other individual's opinions seem to be like the law in the Wild West. It's their opinion...or nothing.

Yes..fact..15 out of 20 posts have been for this thread alone, but why should I be slandered because I own a D40 camera? Why should I have to take everyone else's opinion and not be allowed my own? That is NOT what a forum is all about.

This was an opinion based thread started by someone who threw a question out about $1000 cameras. I answered with my opinion (as everyone else did) and now labeled a troublemaker by members like kundalini and politely threatened with account termination, for simply responding with my own opinion when questioned again and again by several members of this forum. Bottom line...those members kept asking questions, and I kept answering. There was nothing derogatory, impolite or personal aimed at any one individual. One posting could have branched into politics, but both members ensured it did not.

I hardly need any "army" of individuals to make me feel better...actually, better about what exactly? I have my opinion and certainly do not need anyone to make me feel better or to solidify that opinion. I have my own strong will and mind and do not need anyone to "make sure I am right". I simply admired what Jon the Elder said, no more...no less.

And Thank You Fally, if I needed advice over my career or place of residence, I will drop you a PM in the future, but Thank You for your concern.

And finally mrodgers, you are absolutely correct. Most Americans are really not selling their houses...they are losing their mortgages and forclosure is killing Americans all over the Country due to the awful economy. So I do stand corrected. (But this really has nothing to do with $1000 cameras, so I will stop with this).

So, I really do wish to Thank those who did share their opinions with me, who debated the way they see things I did actually learn a thing or two about the marketing, sales and models of different cameras. So it was educational after all, at least for a noob like me. I guess I have no option now but to stop with this thread and throw the soapbox away since I have threats of termination coming my way...and there is an incredible amount of knowledge I truly do wish to learn from each and every one of you.

To all, I finish on a pleasant and humble note, happy shooting to ALL of you here at TPF and I wish you all great success with your imaging, composition and cameras, whether they be Nikon D40's or Nikon D4000's!

Best Regards,

Don.