When to do something for free

photoentrepreneur · Feb 26, 2012

CCericola said:
Doing something for charity means you are donating whatever (services, prints) because you believe in the charity. If you are doing something for charity and are only concerned about what it can do for you then you are doing it for the WRONG reasons and should be ashamed of yourself. Good PR, new leads, etc...are a benefit but should not be expected.

Ok that rant is over.

Ok, doing things for free. When you need something done (new concept,practice,marketing) there is nothing wrong with doing a free shoot. Would you rather pay for models? Persoanlly, I think free shoots should be calculated into your continuing education budget just like a class or seminar.

I'm sure there is something else I wanted to say, but the Oscars are getting ready to start and I want to watch them.

The free ones to charity are because I like to help others. Where did I say otherwise?

KmH · Feb 27, 2012

At the same time Google and Facebook flourished, many other dot.coms went down the drain. There is no doubt that many more start ups that work for free, fail than succeed.

I charged non-profits the same as I charged any other business. If I believed in what a charity is doing I gave a personal donation.

It used to blow my mind when the person at the non-profit I was negotiating with gots paid a higher yearly salary than I was able to make as a successful independent businessman. Did you know non-profit agencies are required by law to disclose financial information, including employee salaries, to the public.

Read more: How to Find Non Profit Salaries | eHow.com How to Find Non Profit Salaries | eHow.com

By the way, non-profits are indeed allowed to make a profit, they just don't call it a profit. They call it a surplus, though there are rules that say what they can and can't do with that surplus.

2WheelPhoto · Feb 27, 2012

Yeah I know a non-profit nursing home her in Fl, the employees live GOOD on their incomes. Not to mention the place sponsors the one of the Rolex sailboat racing events off our coast

CMfromIL · Feb 27, 2012

photoentrepreneur said:
I thought I would open a debate about when or if you should do something for free. Although I make a very good living from photography, I still sometimes do things for free.

Before anyone tells me "doing stuff for free devalues your work and status", I would like to mention two business models that did ok out of it. Facebook and google. You might say that they are different to us, but are they and what could we learn from them as photographers?

Personally I do free shoots if..

1: They will open up new contacts or areas I have not been introduced to.

2: It's for a charity auction.

3: I want to try out new concepts that I will later sell to the wider public

4: It would be good publicity

Your thoughts?

I would add this:

5: When it is for a cause that you belive in, feel passionate about, and your pictures will make a difference. Regardless of the clients ablity to pay. (For example, taking pictures for a pet shelter that would directly result in animals being adopted vs being put down. Most animal shelters are not going to be able to pay for this service.)

Sometimes it's not about what YOU gain from giving away your professional abilities but rather what those given that gift get from it. Like doctors that participate in Doctors W/Out Borders. They give a week or so of their professional medical ablities to a portion of the public that would never be able to afford it. They get all warm and fuzzy, and johhy gets his hairlip/cateract/bow legs fixed.

MLeeK · Feb 27, 2012

The answer is simple: When you WANT to. For whatever reason it is-charity, personal, whatever.

12sndsgood · Feb 27, 2012

might want to break this into two topics, the for charity side, and the for business side.

my plan starting out to build my portfolio after i get some more experience was going to be do the sitting for free and to charge them for the photos. so that they are getting a good deal. im getting the person to shoot to gain more experience but yet still get some money coming in. i may be wrong and that may change before i get to that point, but thats why im reading stuff like this to help guide me.

andywag · Mar 4, 2012

Here are is an extract from a post on another forum which highlights, at least to me, why you should never do "free" shoots.
Note "free" is NOT when you offer a no cost sitting and then sell the prints, neither is it when you do a "free" shoot in exchange for goods or services rather than cash.

Anyway for the past 2 years now I've been doing friends and family for free just to learn my camera and I enjoy photography. Now that I've gotten more serious and started to invest I'm stuck in a situation where everyone loves the pictures I takes and they're standing in line to take them but, I'm stuck with nobody wanting to pay... even though I've published prices repeatidly. They know what I charge but, then it gets really akward because nobody wants to pay now because I've done it for free for so long.

Why would "customers" who have been getting the service/goods for free then suddenly be prepared to pay?
It makes no difference if that customer is a mom wanting pictures of her kids or a magazine wanting images for publication.
If you have been supplying them for free in the past then that is exactly what they will want now and in the future.

I am afraid this "it will get you good exposure" or "work for free this time and we will pay next time" which is continually spouted is just total and utter rubbish.

It will get you exposure - as some mug who gives their work ago
The "next time" will never happen as they will move onto the next mug willing to listen to the false promises.

If you want to donate your services to a charity then fine, that is a donation and can be put against tax etc.
If you want to offer a "free" sitting then fine, that is a marketing tool which is made up for with the prints etc
If you want to offer a "free" image to a publication then a. you are a mug or b. you make sure that you absolutely get something in return.

You should NEVER work for free.

photospherix · Mar 5, 2012

I agree with number 4. If I contact you about a new idea I want to try, it is on me.

DiskoJoe · Mar 5, 2012

photoentrepreneur said:
I thought I would open a debate about when or if you should do something for free. Although I make a very good living from photography, I still sometimes do things for free.

Before anyone tells me "doing stuff for free devalues your work and status", I would like to mention two business models that did ok out of it. Facebook and google. You might say that they are different to us, but are they and what could we learn from them as photographers?

Personally I do free shoots if..

1: They will open up new contacts or areas I have not been introduced to.

2: It's for a charity auction.

3: I want to try out new concepts that I will later sell to the wider public

4: It would be good publicity

Your thoughts?

Both companies had something cool happening. So number one rule is make it cool enough and the money will flow in.

12sndsgood · Mar 6, 2012

"Anyway for the past 2 years now I've been doing friends and family for free just to learn my camera and I enjoy photography. Now that I've gotten more serious and started to invest I'm stuck in a situation where everyone loves the pictures I takes and they're standing in line to take them but, I'm stuck with nobody wanting to pay... even though I've published prices repeatidly. They know what I charge but, then it gets really akward because nobody wants to pay now because I've done it for free for so long. "

my workaround for this is finding just one person who will let me shoot her allot. getting beter as i go. i dont want to do this for 20 people and have them all expecting to get things free. and shooting aquaintences. not friends. aquaintences are people i dont hang out with so its not just me hanging out with a buddy goofing off. when the acquaintence shows up im treating them as if they are a customer and shooting them as such. im also making them aware that this is a one or two time deal. that once the doors of the business opens up they will be charged for it. im trying to stay away from the photographing close friends. im not expecting my friends and aquaintences to be my paying customers. im going after a diffrent customer base and you have to market and advertise for that. i think if you go into this thinking your friends and family are going to be your customer your going to be let down quickly.