Which camera for low light photography?

gothra · Apr 18, 2012

Hi, I'm looking to buy a camera to take pictures of mt pet geckos. They are nocturnal, and will only come out of their hiding place at night when the room is very dimly lit (about 30 lux). I used to use a Canon Powershot G9, I was happy with it overall, except anything over ISO 400 becomes very grainy. Then last December, I "upgraded" to a S100 for the larger aperture (f/2.0 vs G9's f/2.8) and the digic5 image processor. Here's a picture taken by the S100: ISO 1600, f/2.0, shutter 1/5s:

For my purpose, I'm happy with the quality of the image above. Please note that the picture was taken at night with minimal lighting, yet it appeared as if it was taken during daytime. However, the downside with this camera is that I cannot zoom with this lighting condition. As soon as I zoom in, the aperture drops drammatically, the image becomes too dark and is not possible to focus. The LCD display also lags, making it very difficult to take a quick shot especially when the gecko is moving. I didn't seem to have this problem with the G9, even at ISO 400, I was able to zoom in to make large head shots. So, I think I might sell the S100 and upgrade to a more suitable camera again. Any suggestion on which camera will suit my purpose? The geckos are in glass tanks that are 1.5ft wide and 2ft deep, the room is very dim, I won't use flash nor the auto focus assist red beam. I would like to be able to zoom in and produce pictures that are acceptably bright. Hopefully, the LCD display won't lag (the G9 is very smooth). I'm a newbie in terms of photography, I tried to do some researching these 2 days but it's confusing sometimes. If I'm not mistaken, I think I need one that has a large sensor, large aperture camera? The new Canon Powershot G1X has a much larger sensor than the S100 but the lens is only f/2.8 max. Do you think it will out perform the S100? Or, do you think I would be better off with a DSLR? With a large aperture macro lens? Thanks.

DorkSterr · Apr 18, 2012

Nikon D4.

But seriously what's your budget?

analog.universe · Apr 18, 2012

Low light performance is pretty much directly correlated with sensor size. Granted they all get better over time, but the big sensors still do the best. Because of this a DSLR will be your best option. Budget would be important to know...

A used 5D MkII + 50mm 1.4 would be my first guess, but that's sort of an expensive guess.

jaomul · Apr 18, 2012

A basic dslr with fast mid zoom would give way way better results. I would even say a canon 1100d with kit lens(or nikon,sony pentax equivilant) and tripod taking this at ISO 800/1600 would be fine. If you can afford a slightly higher spec lens then better as you can drop the ISO. A 50mm f1.8 may suit but doesn't zoom.

Village Idiot · Apr 18, 2012

gothra said:
Hi, I'm looking to buy a camera to take pictures of mt pet geckos. They are nocturnal, and will only come out of their hiding place at night when the room is very dimly lit (about 30 lux). I used to use a Canon Powershot G9, I was happy with it overall, except anything over ISO 400 becomes very grainy. Then last December, I "upgraded" to a S100 for the larger aperture (f/2.0 vs G9's f/2.8) and the digic5 image processor. Here's a picture taken by the S100: ISO 1600, f/2.0, shutter 1/5s:

For my purpose, I'm happy with the quality of the image above. Please note that the picture was taken at night with minimal lighting, yet it appeared as if it was taken during daytime. However, the downside with this camera is that I cannot zoom with this lighting condition. As soon as I zoom in, the aperture drops drammatically, the image becomes too dark and is not possible to focus. The LCD display also lags, making it very difficult to take a quick shot especially when the gecko is moving. I didn't seem to have this problem with the G9, even at ISO 400, I was able to zoom in to make large head shots. So, I think I might sell the S100 and upgrade to a more suitable camera again. Any suggestion on which camera will suit my purpose? The geckos are in glass tanks that are 1.5ft wide and 2ft deep, the room is very dim, I won't use flash nor the auto focus assist red beam. I would like to be able to zoom in and produce pictures that are acceptably bright. Hopefully, the LCD display won't lag (the G9 is very smooth). I'm a newbie in terms of photography, I tried to do some researching these 2 days but it's confusing sometimes. If I'm not mistaken, I think I need one that has a large sensor, large aperture camera? The new Canon Powershot G1X has a much larger sensor than the S100 but the lens is only f/2.8 max. Do you think it will out perform the S100? Or, do you think I would be better off with a DSLR? With a large aperture macro lens? Thanks.

The problem you're having with the S100 is that it has a variable aperture lens, that means as you zoom, the aperture narrows. There are DSLR lenses like this too. The single aperture zoom lenses usually cost more. I think your best best on lenses will be a prime. Prime lenses don't zoom, but for the most part have better image quality and wider maximum apertures.

We really need to know your budget. For the price of the newest G series camera you could probably pick up a Sony Nex N5 or Olympus PEN with a prime lens. You could also look at used DSLRs. The bodies don't hold their value like the lenses do, so you can find a newish DSLR that performs well at higher ISOs. The other option would be to use flashes. This will get you the best image quality if it doesn't scare away the animals

analog.universe said:
Low light performance is pretty much directly correlated with sensor size. Granted they all get better over time, but the big sensors still do the best. Because of this a DSLR will be your best option. Budget would be important to know...

A used 5D MkII + 50mm 1.4 would be my first guess, but that's sort of an expensive guess.

She's talking about point and shoots, so I don't think a 5D MKII is in the budget.

gothra · Apr 18, 2012

My budget is pretty loose; I have considered a Canon EOS 7D, or even the new 5D Mark III! The 5D Mark III is very expensive stretching my budget actually, plus the cost of a nice lens...that's why I went back and start thinking about the G1X (because I'm a newbie). But, if DSLR is the way to go, then I have no choice but go for the best equipment I can afford. The only problem I have, is that I have never used a DSLR. I don't know how to choose from the array of lenses. These are expensive equipments, I'll feel so awful if I made a wrong choice (like the S100). If the glass tanks are 1.5 ft x 2.5 ft, and I need to stand directly in front of the tank to take pictures of the gecko which is about 20-25cm length; no tripod. Do you think I need a zoom lens or a macro lens? I'd like to take whole body shots and large head shots.

gothra · Apr 18, 2012

Ah thanks Village Idiot for solving the variable aperture lens mystery! I wasn't fixed to buy a point and shoot, but to be honest I'm a bit scared of the DSLR as I have never used one before, and it seems so complicated! I'll look into Olympus PEN and Sony NEX N5, but I'm open to get a DSLR, most of my friends and even my father are telling me a DSLR will work so much better.

TCampbell · Apr 18, 2012

The new G1 X is pretty amazing with it's ability to shoot deal with low light, but it's also fairly expensive. It's also a bit tricky to learn to use it at close focusing distances (it doesn't like to focus as closely as your G9 or S100 and you may need a close-up diopter for it.) A DSLR will also do extremely well compared to what you would have been used to with the G9 or the S100 -- especially since you can switch lenses to something that collects more light (lower focal ratio).

But there's a downside to a low focal ratio when shooting subjects which are close... given any focus distance, there's actually a range at which things will seem reasonably well focused. This range is referred to as the "depth of field" (DoF). That range at which things are reasonable focused becomes thinner as the focal ratio of the lens gets lower (even though the lower focal ratio lens collects more light.) That means you may find that only the gecko's head will be focused, but the body may be out of focus.

You can drive up the ISO setting on the camera and this will allow you to use a higher focal ratio which offers a larger DoF, but higher ISO speeds either result in more "noise" in the image, OR the camera will attempt to smooth out the noise, but this will result in a loss of sharpness.

Ideally... if the gecko is setting still, you can put the camera on a small tripod and take a shot with a much longer shutter exposure time. This would allow you have the whole gecko in focus (because you can use a higher f-stop for a broader DoF) and you could still keep the ISO setting low to avoid "noise" in the image. The catch is, you have to be able to snap that shot when the gecko is perfectly still for possibly as long as a few seconds and the camera must not be moving (hence you'll probably want a small tripod.)

If the camera isn't moving AND the subject isn't moving, then there's always enough light to take a clean shot... because you can leave the shutter open as long as necessary.

lonewolfsx · Apr 18, 2012

I'll second (third? fourth?) the votes for a DSLR combo.. You could get an entry level body like the Nikon D5100 or Canon T3i and a 60mm or 105mm macro lens and get some pretty ridiculously amazing pictures from that setup. I mean like, super high level pictures. Plus, you can use the DSLR for other stuff besides geckos, not sure what you do with your time but it covers a lot of bases. Be warned though, once you get solid pictures from a DSLR you'll never want to shoot a P&S ever again.

Oh and also be careful as to what system you invest in, it's probably prudent to stick to one mount type (Canon EF, Nikon F, Minolta/Sony A, Pentax K, etc.). I'm an idiot for having both Nikon and Canon systems, I'm jumping all Nikon pretty shortly since it's kind of a waste to have the money in two different sets of lenses. Also lenses retain value pretty well, especially higher end ones.

EDIT: Also "low light photography" just SCREAMS "DSLR," definitely the best option, though pricier.

ClickClickClick · Apr 18, 2012

As far as something between a point and shoot and a DSLR go, what about a FujiFilm? The X10 and the X Pro-1 have been getting amazing reviews. Verrrry impressively low noise at high ISOs.

sovietdoc · Apr 18, 2012

I don't think you need an overkill dslr camera. You just need a decent quality point and shoot with decent IQ up to ISO800ish and a zoom lens.

Maybe a micro 4/3 system.

gothra · Apr 18, 2012

Thank you for the input, everyone! I think I'll look more seriously into DSLR. But I need to figure out the basics first, then I'll come back with more questions about selecting a lens.

TCampbell said:
The new G1 X is pretty amazing with it's ability to shoot deal with low light, but it's also fairly expensive. It's also a bit tricky to learn to use it at close focusing distances (it doesn't like to focus as closely as your G9 or S100 and you may need a close-up diopter for it.) A DSLR will also do extremely well compared to what you would have been used to with the G9 or the S100 -- especially since you can switch lenses to something that collects more light (lower focal ratio).

Thanks for the info! If the G1X is more difficult to focus than my previous cameras; then its probably not suitable for me. The geckos do move around a lot, especially when I hold the camera at them, therefore I don't think a tripod is an option. Do DSLRs really focus faster than P&S?

gothra · Apr 18, 2012

Here is another picture of the same gecko, he is moving towards me to check out the camera. I need the camera to be able to focus quickly and snap shots like this:

I guess my question is, if I get a fixed lens e.g. 50mm f/1.8, will I be able to focus on the subject at any point inside the glass tank without me moving the camera back and forth? Or do I need a zoom lens for that?

Kerbouchard · Apr 18, 2012

gothra said:
Do DSLRs really focus faster than P&S?

Like Night and Day. Also, no shutter lag, better ISO performance, being able to use different lenses for the purpose, being able to use a hot shoe flash to bounce your flash, etc.

You never did answer the budget question. If you'll give us your budget, we can give you realistic options.