Which external flash for D5200?

[WayneF]

Thanks I've been watching beginner videos about how to use bounce flash, and how to use fill flash, flash diffusers, reflectors, manual mode, etc. and it seems that ttl is not very good, just like auto mode on the camera. Would it bet better to use ttl or just figure out how to use manual mode? I never realized there was this many variables that come into play when "shooting pictures" lol.

They are either wrong, or it may just be your understanding of what they said, but TTL is extremely good (overwhelmingly the modern way for on-camera flash), but TTL is just perhaps not always 100% precise. That subject is not really about TTL flash, but is about reflective metering, and apples to normal outdoor daylight snapshots as well as applies to the flash. If you shoot a primarily dark subject (meaning dark colors like black, not meaning the absence of light), reflective meters will overexpose it. If you shoot a primarily light subject (meaning light colors like white, not meaning lots of light on it), reflective meters will underexpose it. Every time. This is just how the reflective camera meter works. See How light meters work - So this is what the photographer does, he watches, and does what is necessary, when necessary.

TTL is great stuff, however beginners need to realize it is never fully point&shoot. Some slight attention is required. This is true of outdoor non-flash pictures too, never fully point&shoot. Reflective meters (camera meters) read the reflection from the variable subjects which fool the meter (whereas incident meters instead read the actual light falling on the subject). This is not a new subject, it was always true, it was this same way 50 years ago too.

So the cameras reflective meter is all that TTL flash has to use, and that reflective meter works the same way, with or without flash. It reads the reflection from variably reflecting subjects. We use exposure compensation to control what the ambient automation does, and we use flash compensation to control what the automatic flash does. That is what they are for, they are sometimes needed. In contrast, manual flash is probably never correct, since it does not even try, so we always have to adjust it. TTL is however a vastly closer starting point, normally quite close.

TTL is fantastic for walk around bounce flash, with changing subjects and exposures, etc... It simply just takes care of it automatically (pretty close, but sometimes slight adjustments are necessary - so we do need to pay attention). We could use manual flash mode for that, but every new situation requires manually adjusting the flash again (where TTL is mostly fully automatic). TTL is extremely faster to use.

For studio work, in umbrellas, etc (i.e., a fixed setup), the one setup works for all shots in that same fixed setup. Manual flash comes to advantage then, nothing changes except in the way we change them. Where if the subject turns their head, TTL flash metering might react with a small change. Also TTL is largely unworkable for more than just two lights (main and fill). So we use a handheld incident flash meter for multiple manual lights in the studio, and then manual stays the way we set them (full precise control, but manual).

A good speedlight choice will have a menu to select either TTL or Manual mode, for situations when you deem that necessary.

 

[philipgonzales3]

awesome information. So the process would be something like attach the bounce flash first of course and have it set for TTL. If indoors you angle your flash at the ceiling and can play with the angles to get the best lighting that doesn't leave harsh shadows, then you use flash compensation to dial in the "brightness" of the flash? and then it is possible that exposure compensation may also need to be adjusted in the camera settings or is this unlikely when using flash? Just trying to get an idea of how the process would work? I am obviously just learning about photography and just learned the basics of a histogram and how to adjust the exposure compensation if you have a really bright or really dull background. I believe if the background is very bright then you have to adjust the exposure compensation higher so that the person in the photo won't be underexposed and it's the opposite with a dark background. I think I said that right, I may have gotten it backwards since I'm still learning. Or you could try and use spot metering but the results may not be 100% what you are going for because of the smaller area that it meters.

So I guess I am just making sure I understand the concept of exposure compensation (and exposure in general) correctly and how does flash effect exposure and how do you know if you need to change exposure compensation or flash compensation? I assume flash compensation would have priority so to speak as it can drastically effect exposure?

 

[philipgonzales3]

Also is it OK to buy a used flash? Do used external flashes usually work fine? I am looking at the SB-800, but honestly I still don't know enough to make a good decision. I would also want to make sure I have a reflector on top and a diffuser box thingy to go with it. Does that sound like a good plan?

 

[Mach0]

Also is it OK to buy a used flash? Do used external flashes usually work fine? I am looking at the SB-800, but honestly I still don't know enough to make a good decision. I would also want to make sure I have a reflector on top and a diffuser box thingy to go with it. Does that sound like a good plan?

KEH has them. I bought one around two years ago from there and it's still kicking. No issues. I might buy another for a back up ttl flash .

 

[WayneF]

awesome information. So the process would be something like attach the bounce flash first of course and have it set for TTL. If indoors you angle your flash at the ceiling and can play with the angles to get the best lighting that doesn't leave harsh shadows, then you use flash compensation to dial in the "brightness" of the flash? and then it is possible that exposure compensation may also need to be adjusted in the camera settings or is this unlikely when using flash? Just trying to get an idea of how the process would work? I am obviously just learning about photography and just learned the basics of a histogram and how to adjust the exposure compensation if you have a really bright or really dull background. I believe if the background is very bright then you have to adjust the exposure compensation higher so that the person in the photo won't be underexposed and it's the opposite with a dark background. I think I said that right, I may have gotten it backwards since I'm still learning. Or you could try and use spot metering but the results may not be 100% what you are going for because of the smaller area that it meters.

So I guess I am just making sure I understand the concept of exposure compensation (and exposure in general) correctly and how does flash effect exposure and how do you know if you need to change exposure compensation or flash compensation? I assume flash compensation would have priority so to speak as it can drastically effect exposure?

Right, except maybe it is really not all that hard. Mostly just watch your results (image on rear LCD, and the histogram too), and do what you see you need to do (in a second try, if and when needed). Fact is, with a little experience, we learn to immediately recognize the problem subjects in advance, and already know what we will need to do when we first walk up. Assuming of course that we give any thought to what we are doing...

There are ifs and buts. No short easy answer. People who insist it has to be point&shoot, and never bother to learn anything, will have more trouble with flash. We will need to learn a couple of new things, and be aware, and do a little thinking, so it may not quite be 100% point&shot, but it is also not rocket science. Just do what you see you need to do. It becomes real easy real fast (if willing to think about what we are doing). The things we see to do become essentially automatic to us.

I realize I am offering info that is not yet encountered, so is likely of no interest until the need is discovered... Nevertheless, will add just a bit here:

If we are speaking Nikon, there is TTL mode and there is TTL BL flash mode. TTL BL is Balanced Fill flash, and is default for the internal flash, and for the SB-400 and SB-700. The SB-600, SB-800, and SB-910 (all discontinued except SB-910) have a menu with both modes, selectable by us. Spot metering will override any case of TTL BL to instead be TTL mode. I think it is probably true (certainly of Nikon brand, and probably of most other flash brands for Nikon cameras) that if the flash does NOT have a menu to select either of TTL or TTL BL mode, then by default, when says "TTL", the Nikon system is TTL BL (except for Spot Metering, which is TTL mode).

The difference is based on this: Two proper exposures (flash and ambient) adds to be 2x, or one stop overexposure. TTL BL flash is automatically reduced so that its sum with bright ambient does not overexpose the near flash subject (becomes automatic fill flash, not a main light). TTL mode instead always comes ahead on strong, however it meters, and it does not back off (always a main light), so while correct indoors, it likely overexposes in bright ambient (so instead we always compensate it lower if in bright ambient). TTL BL compensates itself lower automatically (as needed). TTL BL is more point&shoot as fill flash in bright ambient. TTL is more point&shoot indoors in dim ambient (where we need flash). Either works either way, but we have to treat them differently.

My own notion is that TTL mode INDOORS is normally pretty close dead on with exposure. Dark and light subjects certainly affect it as expected, but normal scenes are often close (INDOORS ... but always overexposed as fill in sunshine). Normal scenes are those with a wide range of both dark and light subjects, which actually average to about normal. This normal is common, indoors and out, but there are of course exceptions which we watch for.

My notion is that TTL BL mode OUTDOORS is normally close for fill in sunshine, but TTL BL is maybe up to one stop underexposed INDOORS (and the reverse for TTL mode). We can just routinely set TTL BL to +1 EV flash compensation indoors, which seems a better starting point, and seems to work wonders (just do what you see you need to do). And TTL as fill in bright sun, we just know to set about -2 EV Flash Compensation to be correct.
We do always have to pay attention to results, and do what we see is necessary, but in general, they are pretty close, as discussed.

So there are a few ifs and buts which really need to be understood. Rather than repeat it all here, I would suggest at least two pages at each of
How light meters work
Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Flash pictures are Double Exposures

It likely will be more useful after you actually have the flash to play with.

Also is it OK to buy a used flash? Do used external flashes usually work fine? I am looking at the SB-800, but honestly I still don't know enough to make a good decision. I would also want to make sure I have a reflector on top and a diffuser box thingy to go with it. Does that sound like a good plan?

Sure, why not, if in good condition. The used flash should be a modern model however, capable of iTTL with the modern digital camera. Old flashes for film cameras can still do manual flash, but they cannot do iTTL (and modern digital cameras cannot do the old film TTL that the old flash can do).

I have not had experience buying used flashes, but I still use two SB-800 that I bought nine years ago. Nikon says flashes should be sent in for service every couple of years. I just recently sent mine in for the first time, after about nine years. They replaced the flash tubes, which were still working OK before. Only change I see is that the white balance temperature came up a little. I also still have a SB-24 (film TTL) that is 25 years old, and never serviced, and it still works fine, GN exposure is still as expected.

I am a big fan of the pull out white card for bounce in some flashes (however it is easy to add such with a rubber band). I am NOT a fan of the diffusion domes, my notion is that they serve no observable purpose.

If price is a current issue, you might look at Review of the Yongnuo YN565EX Speedlight. It will do all you need.