4x5 Lens Question

SoulfulRecover · Feb 16, 2015

Im in the process of building a 4x5 camera and I am looking at three lens choices, a Rapid Rectilinear F8, the Kodak Anastigmat F7.7 or the Lens off of a 3A Folding Pocket Kodak.

I found a 3A on ebay that should work however I was a little worried about the shutter speed only going up to 1/100th of a sec. Should I look for something a bit quicker? Or would I be better off fitting a filter on the lens to cut light? I just don't want to limit myself too much with when/where I can shoot this thing.

Heres the link: Kodak Eastman Autographic No 3A Lens Rapid Rectilinear eBay

If anyone has better advice on other lenses, please feel free to share your thoughts

480sparky · Feb 16, 2015

I don't get it. You say you might be limited by a 1/100-sec max speed, but ask about using a filter to reduce light.

Actually, I don't see any shutter speed settings on the lens. Is it a fixed 1/100?

Designer · Feb 16, 2015

SoulfulRecover said:
please feel free to share your thoughts

What do you photograph? Landscapes - longish exposure times are o.k. Portraiture - maybe not.

SoulfulRecover · Feb 16, 2015

if I was to use a filter to cut the amount of light to get in so that the 100th would work on a bright sunny day. I know I can change the aperture to block some light as well at the loss of DoF. Im not too worried about stopping movement really, but id hate to be out and my meter is telling me I need a faster shutter speed for the DoF I would like with the film speed I am using.

Does that make more sense?

Ive got Monday morning work brain right now so I am sorry if I am not explaining myself well haha

Mostly portraits which is why it kind of worried me.

Dave442 · Feb 16, 2015

The lens from the 3A should stop down enough so you can use 1/100 with no problem in daylight. A great aunt had one of these early folding cameras along with 1000's of photos. All those were contact photos which was the standard at the time, so I don't think the lens had to be all that good to do the job. I think the Rapid Rectilinear is similar to the lens on the 3A, or should I say the 3A may have a Rapid Rectilinear lens. The Anastigmat lens could be the best of the set, but condition and the look you want could tip to one of the other lenses.

smithdan · Feb 16, 2015

I'm not as techno blessed as some. Think this one has a minimum focus of 6ft. and a 120mm (?) focal length. 50 or even 100Iso film would shoot at around f8 - 12 with old floods and likely even with diffused flash gear. This would allow enough DOF control to manage background and such. Weak link would be the lens IQ. Haven't used my 1A as it's missing some bits but have shot some Kodak folders of the same vintage and I think you may like the results.

Light Guru · Feb 16, 2015

The lens on the camera in your link may not even cover a 4x5 negative. The lens is from 120mm camera after all.

As for if that's a fast enough shutter speed that depends on what you shoot and how you like to shoot it.

4x5 is the main format camera I shoot and I do landscapes. I rarely use a shutter speed lasted then 1/2 sec. I use 100 speed B&W film but rate it at 50 after factoring in a colored filter and reciprocity I regularly have exposures of several seconds or longer.

SoulfulRecover · Feb 16, 2015

thank you all for the information. From my research, the 3A lens will cover 4x5 just fine. It seems the biggest issue will be finding one that still works and isn't beat up too bad. found one that in the states that would be a bit better I think:

Antique No 3 A Folding Pocket Kodak Model B 4 Eastman Red Bellows Camera eBay

Rick58 · Feb 16, 2015

Personally, if I was looking for a budget lens for my 4x5, I'd go for something like this..
Graphic Supermatic x Kodak Ektar 152mm F4 5 Graflex Lens 4x5 Large Format AV eBay

SoulfulRecover · Feb 16, 2015

Rick58 said:
Personally, if I was looking for a budget lens for my 4x5, I'd go for something like this..
Graphic Supermatic x Kodak Ektar 152mm F4 5 Graflex Lens 4x5 Large Format AV eBay

I would love to but I don't think the wife would let me spend that much on just the lens hahahaha

Derrel · Feb 16, 2015

480sparky said:
I don't get it. You say you might be limited by a 1/100-sec max speed, but ask about using a filter to reduce light.

Actually, I don't see any shutter speed settings on the lens. Is it a fixed 1/100?

It shows three distinct instantaneous speeds: 25,50,and 100, plus Bulb and Time. Right there on the front...

My question is: what is the coverage the lens provides? Will it cover 4x5 inches? I have a feeling it might...but not sure, really. Interestingly, a few years back I saw some images made with an old 1910-vintage Kodak, perhaps a 3A, with its lens cobbled onto a Minolta d-slr, and the images were really pretty damned good!

As far as the top speed of 1/100 second, keep in mind that on 4x5 film, to get much depth of field, one needs pretty small apertures much of the time, so small f/stops like f/45 and f/64 would mean that speeds of 1/25 and 1/50 would be just about right on 100 to 125 ISO film stock outdoors in sunlight...

I bet on-line there's some reference material that will list the coverage or "angle of coverage" (not to be confused with angle of view) for that lens. That old lens might not be a $1,000 Rodenstock, but on 4x5, the negative is so darned BIG that ultimate lens quality is not such a big deal as it is on say, a m4/3 lens with a teeny-tiny sensor. I used to have an old Kodak 101mm Wide-field Ektar that was a pretty danged good lens, and had a rear element group that was removable, which converted the lens to like a 300mm or thereabout soft-focus lens!

I just looked. Looks like that lens can cover a 5-inch wide piece of film, based on old-time official Eastman Kodak data found in this document on-line: The Project Gutenberg eBook of Kodaks and Kodak Supplies by Canadian Kodak Co. Limited.

Of course, you probably will not have a ton of movements, but still...this could end up being a very low-cost lens and shutter!

unpopular · Feb 17, 2015

You will likely find that 4x5 is a much slower process than you're accustom, and that shutter speed is no exception. In fact, when I sold my shuttered lens and was left with one in barrel, I didn't miss the shutter at all.

Naturally, this very well could have been my shooting style, also.

That said, if you wanted to go that route, this lens is positively amazing with gobs of movement:

JML 8 25 inch 210mm F 8 Process Lens eBay

Have it mounted by SK Grimes.

SoulfulRecover · Feb 17, 2015

Thank you all for the continued information. Its been very helpful

This may be a stupid question but hey that's how you learn, with that JML, will I need anything else along with it to be functional? Like a separate shutter system?

Edit: did some researching and yes it will need a shutter. Not sure exactly what yet as most people are using this JML on an 8x10.

unpopular · Feb 17, 2015

You will only need a shutter if your exposure time is shorter than a few seconds. Otherwise your dark cloth will do just fine

I did this for a couple years.

As I said, you will find that nothing about large format is speedy. Long exposures in the 5-30 second ranges are not atypical. The JML lens is going cheap right now, might be worth picking up even if you don't intend to use it as a primary lens.

What kind of camera are you using or planning on using? Many of the Graflex press cameras had giant rolling curtain shutters which would open your possibilities a bit.

If movements aren't important to you then there is the Graflex RB-series, which are 3x4, 4x5 and 5x7 (rare) SLRs. The D model is kind of outrageously priced right now, but the RB Series B is running around $300 with a lens.

I owned a Model B, it's a positively epic camera to use. The lenses on them are nice, classic tessars. Not super sharp, but have that classic tessar quality to them. I'm sure SK Grimes could have something more modern (like the JML) mounted.

Using the rolling shutters in a graflex, a high tension, wide slit setting allows for handheld use down to about 1/30-1/15 sec pretty easily. My RB Series B had a maximum shutter speed of 1/1000.

unpopular · Feb 17, 2015

Oh, I did forget. Most of the RB cameras used the old GrafLEX backs and not the modern GrafLOK. So i recommend that you use a magazine.

That way you don't have to find film holders... plus they are super cool.