Cahterine's Bridal Shoot

[Derrel]

2.

I see what JackRabbit was saying...the chin and the chest simply merge. I don't have a $3,000 NEC monitor like bennielou says she uses, but only a 30 inch $1,800 Apple Cinema Display,and I cannot see any chin or heek along the entire camera-left side of her face until well past the 6 o-clock position where a slight shadow give a visual clue that there is indeed, a chin and cheek on the camera-right side.

This whole attack your critics and refer us to their web pages routine is old. You did it to me a couple weeks ago and ran down my work, then apologized to me and tried to play "nice". Now you're attacking a 16 year-old high school student and calling him "junior nuthead", and trying to pove that the only people qualified to make comments on your professional work are people who shoot weddings.

How good a basketball player do you think Lakers coach Phil Jackson is? How good do you think 1948 Olympic Gold Medal figure skating winner Dick Button is now, now that he's 80-something years old? Is 4-time Super Bowl winning quarterback Terry Bradshaw qualified to offer analysis about NFL football? I mean after all he doesn't currently "get payed to play" football. None of the above people actually "do" the sports they coach or comment on. Just as restaurant critics are not restaurant chefs, and film critics are not actors or directors or film makers. The entire field of criticism and analysis--in sports,the culinary arts, literature, cinema, and so on is populated with critics who make comments about the WORK. When the artist repeatedly, over weeks and weeks, launches ad hominem attacks against those who offer criticism, it gets old...and it gets old really fast.

 

[Fedaykin]

Once again, Derrel pretty much said all that needed to be said.

 

[Josh220]

Wow, well this thread has become something....

Just as all of the others :er:

When the artist repeatedly, over weeks and weeks, launches ad hominem attacks against those who offer criticism, it gets old...and it gets old really fast.

Agreed.

Bennielou,
Perhaps you can do us all a favor and let us know exactly what it is you expect from everyone. You "say" you want C&C, yet you only accept it when it strokes your ego. You need to be able to accept both ends of a critique without putting down the posters who offer their opinions. When the same points come up time after time, don't you think it's more logical that you may be incorrect rather than everyone else in the world? No matter what, you are always the victim in your eyes. It can't always be the way you want it, and the bipolar trolling you have been doing as of late isn't beneficial to yourself, nor your business. You are portraying yourself not as a professional or a mature "aged" woman, but a "hot and cold" adolescent. It would seem that you are letting your insecurities cloud your better judgement while replying to those who are merely trying to help you.

Do you consider yourself a professional photographer or a professional photoshop artist? It seems like you are basing your profession on post processing first, and photography second. I personally would not want my girlfriend (or bride in this case) to be altered beyond recognition. I would want her to be shown in her full beauty as I see her every day; as the person I know and love deeply. To show this naturally without making her look plastic is what I would consider a true professional photo; I would not want the love of my life to be portrayed in a way that would make it seem that a fake rendition of her was in any way more desirable than who she really is.

Yes, I realize you keep emphasizing how much these women lust after this "look" but it's just too much. In addition... It seems that every thread you start has a disclaimer (i.e. excuse) blaming the customers for the editing.

 

[Christie Photo]

I'm not sure I've ever encountered a person on the internet more emotional then the OP.
Tissue paper thin skin.

Yes... Cindy can be emotional. But I do understand where she's coming from.

Jack is on his way. His work shows he has some good understanding of lighting. But he is not yet "there"... especially when you consider all the aspects of professional portrait photography. He's getting nearer, but a way to go. He'll see that some day.

When someone with such limited mileage and so little life experience comes with statements like: "What you do is not professional... something that any self conscious high school girl with Photoshop and a Myspace could do... They look ridiculous... I feel bad for your clients.... what you do is more or less not worth the price tag," well... I don't know why it has to pointed out.

And since we've open the can of worms about art vs client's specs... I've looked at everything I can find that Jack has posted, here and elsewhere, and haven't yet seen an image that would be accepted for display at a professional state convention. Cindy has been producing that level of work.

Sure... Cindy can be thin-skinned at times, but Jack is not in any position to make the kind of assertions he does.

-Pete

 

[dom yo]

I see what JackRabbit was saying...the chin and the chest simply merge. I don't have a $3,000 NEC monitor like bennielou says she uses, but only a 30 inch $1,800 Apple Cinema Display,and I cannot see any chin or heek along the entire camera-left side of her face until well past the 6 o-clock position where a slight shadow give a visual clue that there is indeed, a chin and cheek on the camera-right side.

This whole attack your critics and refer us to their web pages routine is old. You did it to me a couple weeks ago and ran down my work, then apologized to me and tried to play "nice". Now you're attacking a 16 year-old high school student and calling him "junior nuthead", and trying to pove that the only people qualified to make comments on your professional work are people who shoot weddings.

How good a basketball player do you think Lakers coach Phil Jackson is? How good do you think 1948 Olympic Gold Medal figure skating winner Dick Button is now, now that he's 80-something years old? Is 4-time Super Bowl winning quarterback Terry Bradshaw qualified to offer analysis about NFL football? I mean after all he doesn't currently "get payed to play" football. None of the above people actually "do" the sports they coach or comment on. Just as restaurant critics are not restaurant chefs, and film critics are not actors or directors or film makers. The entire field of criticism and analysis--in sports,the culinary arts, literature, cinema, and so on is populated with critics who make comments about the WORK. When the artist repeatedly, over weeks and weeks, launches ad hominem attacks against those who offer criticism, it gets old...and it gets old really fast.

well i have a LaCie 730 that was color calibrated 2 weeks ago and it looks like her chin and neck are merged to me as well.

i agree with everything youve said
she cannot take criticism without demanding the other persons work
and when she finds it, she makes it sound like that person doesnt know what they are doing. she did this to someone yesterday and i looked at that persons flickr account and the portrait photos actually looks a lot better than her wedding photos. and she's sitting there telling that person "good luck"

honestly she is a 13 year old girl in a 46 year old body, its pretty sad how much drama she starts around here

 

[dom yo]

I'm not sure I've ever encountered a person on the internet more emotional then the OP.
Tissue paper thin skin.

Yes... Cindy can be emotional. But I do understand where she's coming from.

Jack is on his way. His work shows he has some good understanding of lighting. But he is not yet "there"... especially when you consider all the aspects of professional portrait photography. He's getting nearer, but a way to go. He'll see that some day.

When someone with such limited mileage and so little life experience comes with statements like: "What you do is not professional... something that any self conscious high school girl with Photoshop and a Myspace could do... They look ridiculous... I feel bad for your clients.... what you do is more or less not worth the price tag," well... I don't know why it has to pointed out.

And since we've open the can of worms about art vs client's specs... I've looked at everything I can find that Jack has posted, here and elsewhere, and haven't yet seen an image that would be accepted for display at a professional state convention. Cindy has been producing that level of work.

Sure... Cindy can be thin-skinned at times, but Jack is not in any position to make the kind of assertions he does.

-Pete

i dont see how its anyones fault but hers when she holds herself so much higher than everyone else

 

[Fedaykin]

I'm not sure I've ever encountered a person on the internet more emotional then the OP.
Tissue paper thin skin.

Yes... Cindy can be emotional. But I do understand where she's coming from.

Jack is on his way. His work shows he has some good understanding of lighting. But he is not yet "there"... especially when you consider all the aspects of professional portrait photography. He's getting nearer, but a way to go. He'll see that some day.

When someone with such limited mileage and so little life experience comes with statements like: "What you do is not professional... something that any self conscious high school girl with Photoshop and a Myspace could do... They look ridiculous... I feel bad for your clients.... what you do is more or less not worth the price tag," well... I don't know why it has to pointed out.

And since we've open the can of worms about art vs client's specs... I've looked at everything I can find that Jack has posted, here and elsewhere, and haven't yet seen an image that would be accepted for display at a professional state convention. Cindy has been producing that level of work.

Sure... Cindy can be thin-skinned at times, but Jack is not in any position to make the kind of assertions he does.

-Pete

I'm sorry but his age/skill level( and I prefer his pictures to hers)/anything else don't mean a thing when it comes to criticism. As Derrel stated one doesn't have to be a professional in a field in order to be an able critic in said medium. Once again both you and Benneliou are simply making excuses and dodging criticism by bashing other people's works, which have no bearing on her own skills whatsoever. Not taking criticism and getting emotional about it and on top of that bashing to critic's work is simply childish.

 

[JackRabbit]

I'm not sure I've ever encountered a person on the internet more emotional then the OP.
Tissue paper thin skin.

Yes... Cindy can be emotional. But I do understand where she's coming from.

Jack is on his way. His work shows he has some good understanding of lighting. But he is not yet "there"... especially when you consider all the aspects of professional portrait photography. He's getting nearer, but a way to go. He'll see that some day.

When someone with such limited mileage and so little life experience comes with statements like: "What you do is not professional... something that any self conscious high school girl with Photoshop and a Myspace could do... They look ridiculous... I feel bad for your clients.... what you do is more or less not worth the price tag," well... I don't know why it has to pointed out.

And since we've open the can of worms about art vs client's specs... I've looked at everything I can find that Jack has posted, here and elsewhere, and haven't yet seen an image that would be accepted for display at a professional state convention. Cindy has been producing that level of work.

Sure... Cindy can be thin-skinned at times, but Jack is not in any position to make the kind of assertions he does.

-Pete

I believe this was addressed in Derrel's and my own post.

And did you even read the post I left? I retracted my statements on everything which commented on the business aspect of her work. So half of your post has been invalidated right there.

What would put me into a position to make the comments that I have Pete? I understand that my work is not the greatest, nor did I claim that it was, but I have also only been shooting seriously for 4 months, during which I have also balanced school, work and friends.

 

[bennielou]

Hi Jackrabbit,
I didn't see the retracted post. I saw the original one. And I have to say, it was hurtful.
People are saying that I don't take crit well. That might well be the case. But IMO, I was also attacked with some really hateful stuff. There was no, "you should do it this way" kind of thing. It was just evil, mean, and very much hurtful.

Yes, I do go to people's galleries. Online you don't know if someone started out yesterday with a camera they got at Christmas. You just don't know. They may be a shoot and burner. They may be a purist. They might be really great. You never know. So sue me if I wish to take advice from people who have done this, and know the limitations, the time constrictions, etc.

I get that pretty much all photogs hate the skin/eye thing. I have said that over and over again.

I do not have a problem with constructive crit. "Hey, there is something really distracting over there that you didn't notice." "Oh hey, I would have cropped this way....see how much better it looks now"?

What I don't expect to see is posts like "You suck, you are horrible, You're not a pro, You ripp off your clients, it's freakish", etc.

 

[bennielou]

I'm not sure I've ever encountered a person on the internet more emotional then the OP.
Tissue paper thin skin.

Yes... Cindy can be emotional. But I do understand where she's coming from.

Jack is on his way. His work shows he has some good understanding of lighting. But he is not yet "there"... especially when you consider all the aspects of professional portrait photography. He's getting nearer, but a way to go. He'll see that some day.

When someone with such limited mileage and so little life experience comes with statements like: "What you do is not professional... something that any self conscious high school girl with Photoshop and a Myspace could do... They look ridiculous... I feel bad for your clients.... what you do is more or less not worth the price tag," well... I don't know why it has to pointed out.

And since we've open the can of worms about art vs client's specs... I've looked at everything I can find that Jack has posted, here and elsewhere, and haven't yet seen an image that would be accepted for display at a professional state convention. Cindy has been producing that level of work.

Sure... Cindy can be thin-skinned at times, but Jack is not in any position to make the kind of assertions he does.

-Pete

Thank you Pete. Sorry to have dragged you into this mess.....

 

[bennielou]

Wow, well this thread has become something....

Just as all of the others :er:

When the artist repeatedly, over weeks and weeks, launches ad hominem attacks against those who offer criticism, it gets old...and it gets old really fast.

Agreed.

Bennielou,
Perhaps you can do us all a favor and let us know exactly what it is you expect from everyone. You "say" you want C&C, yet you only accept it when it strokes your ego. You need to be able to accept both ends of a critique without putting down the posters who offer their opinions. When the same points come up time after time, don't you think it's more logical that you may be incorrect rather than everyone else in the world? No matter what, you are always the victim in your eyes. It can't always be the way you want it, and the bipolar trolling you have been doing as of late isn't beneficial to yourself, nor your business. You are portraying yourself not as a professional or a mature "aged" woman, but a "hot and cold" adolescent. It would seem that you are letting your insecurities cloud your better judgement while replying to those who are merely trying to help you.

Do you consider yourself a professional photographer or a professional photoshop artist? It seems like you are basing your profession on post processing first, and photography second. I personally would not want my girlfriend (or bride in this case) to be altered beyond recognition. I would want her to be shown in her full beauty as I see her every day; as the person I know and love deeply. To show this naturally without making her look plastic is what I would consider a true professional photo; I would not want the love of my life to be portrayed in a way that would make it seem that a fake rendition of her was in any way more desirable than who she really is.

Yes, I realize you keep emphasizing how much these women lust after this "look" but it's just too much. In addition... It seems that every thread you start has a disclaimer (i.e. excuse) blaming the customers for the editing.

Really mean.

Don't you get what has happened here? I'm playing the victim? Really?

What would you do when horrible things are said about your work? When you are personally attacked?

Also would you preface your post with an explaination of why you did things a little differently? Or let it ride with no explaination at all.

I'm definately not a victim. And I'm sorry you see it that way. I'd like to see how you handle someone telling you really mean things about you, both professionally, and personally.

 

[bennielou]

2.

I see what JackRabbit was saying...the chin and the chest simply merge. I don't have a $3,000 NEC monitor like bennielou says she uses, but only a 30 inch $1,800 Apple Cinema Display,and I cannot see any chin or heek along the entire camera-left side of her face until well past the 6 o-clock position where a slight shadow give a visual clue that there is indeed, a chin and cheek on the camera-right side.

This whole attack your critics and refer us to their web pages routine is old. You did it to me a couple weeks ago and ran down my work, then apologized to me and tried to play "nice". Now you're attacking a 16 year-old high school student and calling him "junior nuthead", and trying to pove that the only people qualified to make comments on your professional work are people who shoot weddings.

How good a basketball player do you think Lakers coach Phil Jackson is? How good do you think 1948 Olympic Gold Medal figure skating winner Dick Button is now, now that he's 80-something years old? Is 4-time Super Bowl winning quarterback Terry Bradshaw qualified to offer analysis about NFL football? I mean after all he doesn't currently "get payed to play" football. None of the above people actually "do" the sports they coach or comment on. Just as restaurant critics are not restaurant chefs, and film critics are not actors or directors or film makers. The entire field of criticism and analysis--in sports,the culinary arts, literature, cinema, and so on is populated with critics who make comments about the WORK. When the artist repeatedly, over weeks and weeks, launches ad hominem attacks against those who offer criticism, it gets old...and it gets old really fast.

I agree that her chinline is missing. I didn't notice that before. Thanks.

 

[JackRabbit]

Read the flippin post that I took the time to outline what I mean.

Stop whining until you've read it.

 

[bennielou]

Ok, Jackrabbit. Another nice insightful post.

I read what you wrote:

I suck

I rip people off

I am not professional

The work I do is horrible

You feel sorry for the bride.....

I get it.

Why not tell me, how you would do it differently?

 

[JackRabbit]

Excuse me? I do not even mention one criticism of the business aspect of your photography in my second post... go read this post