Choosing a neutral density filter

gossamer · Oct 20, 2014

Hi,

I'm interested in a neutral density filter for my 16-85mm f3.5-5.6 67mm wide-angle lens. I like the variable Promaster ND filter that's around $60 on amazon. The variable seems to be a great idea instead of having to carry around a series of separate filters to use based on the conditions.

I'm wondering, however, why this variable filter is only sixty bucks while individual B+W filters are each like sixy bucks? Is there really that much of a difference in the quality of the glass, or is this cheaper Promaster one sufficient?

B+W and Hoya don't seem to make a variable neutral density filter.

With the exception of one being variable and the other for a specific density, what really are the specific differences between the Promaster variable and one of the B+W or Hoya for a specific density?

tirediron · Oct 20, 2014

You get what you pay for. There are top tier filters such as Lee and Singh-Ray; Singh-Ray's variable density ND sells for around (IIRC) $300. It's worth every penny! Second tier filters are B+W, Helionpan, Rodenstock which are very good, and used by many professionals. Next are Hoya and Tiffen; these are good consumer filters and finally there's pretty much everything else.

The reason the Promaster is so cheap is because it is cheaply made. It's made with cheaper glass, lower quality materials (probably an aluminum bezel), and likely no ant-reflective/glare coatings. Think about it for a moment. Even the most inexpensive lens has millions of dollars of R&D behind it. Does it not make sense that putting a cheap filter on it would negate that? Never buy filters with aluminum bezels; because of the nature of the material it does not play well with with the steel or aluminum filter threads on the front of your lens, and can 'stick' there, especially on a cheaper filter where the threads may not be so accurately cut. ALWAYS buy brass bezeled filters if at all possible.

Filters are a necessary evil, and when you have to use them, use the absolute best you can afford. It really can make that much of a difference.

runnah · Oct 20, 2014

I have a 10 stop bw filter and it's amazing. The image quality is so good you don't even notice it's there. I also have a Hoya version and it's terrible in comparison.

You really do get what you pay for when it comes to filters.

Gary A. · Oct 20, 2014

I have no experience with Promaster, but I have found that cheaper ND filters, (even some expensive ND filters), are not 100% neutral and you'll get bit of a color shift.

gossamer · Oct 20, 2014

Very interesting, thanks so much. I meant to mention that I figured the better filters used better glass, but was really wondering if it made _that_ much of a difference for the typical user. Now I know that it does.

I don't think I'll ever be enough of a pro to warrant individual filters for each density. So I did a quick search for Singh-Ray neutral density, and didn't find much. Do you have a specific recommendation for a B+W or Singh-Ray variable neutral density filter?

I'm actually pretty upset with my camera store - I don't mind paying extra for their service with the products they sell, but they sold me that Promaster filter for _twice_ the price on amazon. Thankfully I've returned it and will probably never buy something from them again.

gossamer · Oct 20, 2014

runnah said:
I have a 10 stop bw filter and it's amazing. The image quality is so good you don't even notice it's there. I also have a Hoya version and it's terrible in comparison.

You really do get what you pay for when it comes to filters.

10-stop is practically completely dark, no? Doesn't that really limit you to shooting at, say, the sun or a very bright day on the beach?

tirediron · Oct 20, 2014

10 stop is very dark, yes. ND of this degree is commonly used to achieve the very long shutter speeds necessary for the 'feathery' look of flowing water and similar subjects. This is the Singh-ray variable density filter, currently priced at $352 (77mm).

Gary A. · Oct 20, 2014

gossamer said:
Very interesting, thanks so much. I meant to mention that I figured the better filters used better glass, but was really wondering if it made _that_ much of a difference for the typical user. Now I know that it does.

I don't think I'll ever be enough of a pro to warrant individual filters for each density. So I did a quick search for Singh-Ray neutral density, and didn't find much. Do you have a specific recommendation for a B+W or Singh-Ray variable neutral density filter?

I'm actually pretty upset with my camera store - I don't mind paying extra for their service with the products they sell, but they sold me that Promaster filter for _twice_ the price on amazon. Thankfully I've returned it and will probably never buy something from them again.

Just be careful with your purchases. My camera store sells me their wares at B&H pricing. I didn't have to request it.

gossamer · Oct 20, 2014

tirediron said:
10 stop is very dark, yes. ND of this degree is commonly used to achieve the very long shutter speeds necessary for the 'feathery' look of flowing water and similar subjects. This is the Singh-ray variable density filter, currently priced at $352 (77mm).

So it looks like they only have the 77mm, which won't fit my 67mm lenses. Must be for a full-frame or much larger lens?

I've found this B+W filter:

e-Business

It's from 1-5 stops. Is that typically sufficient? I don't doubt there's cases where a darker/slower filter would be preferred, such as with the 10-stop filter, but is there something less obvious I'm missing by not having one in that darker/slower range?

astroNikon · Oct 20, 2014

I nearly bought a cheap variable but didn't after finding out that cheap variables can cause significant issues.

Cheap ones can be made of colored plastic. Whereas the better ones are made of glass, even better ones are made of even better glass, such as Schott glass.

One such issue with variables is the "X" issue ==> An In-Depth Comparison of Two Variable Neutral Density Filters - Tuts+ Photo & Video Article

Regular ND filters come in a variety of "darkness" ==> Neutral density filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In addition to the material (plastic, various qualities of glass) they come in different thicknesses such as "thin" ones for wide angle lenses.

Then the ring comes in various materials - plastic, metal, aluminum or brass (which is best for threads)

Then coatings .. single coating, multi coatings, multi resistance coatings, etc.

Of course the better overall ,the more costly.

more info ==> LensRentals.com - The Glass in Front of Your Glass: All About Filters

In essence, as mentioned, the cheaper a filter the more it affects the quality of the photo from the color to the sharp details.

astroNikon · Oct 20, 2014

There are also things called "step up" rings, which allow you to use a larger filter on a smaller lens.

For instance, I have all 77mm filters as my pro lenses are 77mm
But my other lenses are 72 and 67. I use a step up ring to accomodate those ==> step up ring Buy or Learn at Adorama

So you could get a larger filter and a step up ring from 67 to 77, as an example.

astroNikon · Oct 20, 2014

gossamer said:
tirediron said:

10 stop is very dark, yes. ND of this degree is commonly used to achieve the very long shutter speeds necessary for the 'feathery' look of flowing water and similar subjects. This is the Singh-ray variable density filter, currently priced at $352 (77mm).

Click to expand...

So it looks like they only have the 77mm, which won't fit my 67mm lenses. Must be for a full-frame or much larger lens?

I've found this B+W filter:

e-Business

It's from 1-5 stops. Is that typically sufficient? I don't doubt there's cases where a darker/slower filter would be preferred, such as with the 10-stop filter, but is there something less obvious I'm missing by not having one in that darker/slower range?

That one filter you identifies id $589 dollars retail ?

What are you trying to accomplish with ND filters ?
or are you just getting into it.

If you are just getting into it maybe a cheap variable might give you an idea of what you may want to buy in the long rum.

Also, you can accomplish some longer exposure times by stopping down your aperture to f/22 or more just to test to see what you are after.

runnah · Oct 20, 2014

gossamer said:
runnah said:

I have a 10 stop bw filter and it's amazing. The image quality is so good you don't even notice it's there. I also have a Hoya version and it's terrible in comparison.

You really do get what you pay for when it comes to filters.

Click to expand...

10-stop is practically completely dark, no? Doesn't that really limit you to shooting at, say, the sun or a very bright day on the beach?

Yeah it's dark, what do you plan on doing with it?

I use mine for the water effects and also for video. It allows me to shoot at low SS and big apertures during sunny days.

Ido · Oct 20, 2014

It really comes down to what you want to use it for.
If it's for video, or for shooting with a "fast" lens wide open in daylight, a variable filter can certainly be useful.
If it's for long exposures, it's better to get a solid ND. And you don't need a boatload of filters covering the entire range a variable filter covers - you may not even need more than one! In that case, it's important to figure out how long an exposure you'd like to achieve (around a second, maybe a few seconds; up to 30-60 seconds; or several minutes) and in what lighting conditions (daylight, dawn/dusk, sunrise/sunset...). Figure that out and share the answers here, and we'll help you find the right density for your needs.