development help

[lane]

Hi, I've been jumping hurdles here and there slowly trying to figure out a process that works for me. I took a class on b&w photography and got hooked months ago. I actually took way better photos in class and didnt have the issues I have now, even though I'm following the same instructions and ****. My first issue was that I started getting purple negatives, which I then corrected by fixing longer and pre-washing, photo-flo, etc. That helped even though I still get an annoying tint, but they are printable/scannable now.

I now have a new issue which I'm having trouble figuring out. I pretty much only get muddy gray images now. To me its weird, I wanted to blame the camera initially because I used a canon eos-1 in class and now I use a canon ae-1 but I doubt that's the case. I'll fill you in on my process.

I currently use tri-x at 400

i first pre-wash for 30sec-1min

then develop with t-max for 6.5 minutes

then use stop bath (simply water)

fixer (ilford rapid fixer) 5 minutes (usually 10 min now to fix the purple tint) dunno if thats a good choice.

I then wash for 25 minutes, and hang dry for 45-1hour.

I never have this issue with my digital camera, but I returned it cuz I prefer film


ill also get varied results when I push to 800 iso and overdevelop to 8.5 minutes, sometimes I'm more likely to get true blacks. Been researching the zone system and all that but im still confused, maybe someone can explain it in layman.

 

[dxqcanada]

Hmm, sounds like developer ... what developer are you using ?
Is it one-shot or replenished?

[Opps ... just realized you are using T-Max developer]

 

[KenC]

There are so many variables it's almost impossible for anyone to solve this for you without watching you, but I'll just throw out a few questions that may be useful. Are you controlling the temperature? You don't mention temperature at all and that is critical for the development phase. How are you agitating during development? What are you photographing and has that changed since the earlier rolls that were OK? By muddy gray to you mean no dark areas and no light areas in the negative, but just something in the middle? Are you re-using developer? (always a risky proposition) Have you always used TMax developer for Tri-x? I never heard of anyone using it for anything other than TMax film, but if you've done it before I guess it's OK.

I never did a pre-wash, but I doubt that hurts development.

As for pushing to 800 and overdeveloping, that raises contrast significantly, so I'm not surprised you're getting good blacks when you do it. Basically, underexposing makes the shadows lighter in the negative and increasing development time won't bring out detail that isn't there, so you push a lot of the shadows into black by underexposing. The highlights will also be less dense when underexposed, but increased development will produce a lot more silver and give you dense highlights in the negative and thus lighter highlights in the print.

 

[Mully]

Always got good results with D76 and never a per wash

 

[dxqcanada]

What is your chemistry dilution/mix ?

 

[lane]

sorry about not mentioning that earlier, I dillute developer 1-4, and yes I thought about buying XTOL or D-76 because I noticed that tmax is obviously for tmax film but I used the tmax developer in class, so yah. Temperature is at 68 degrees for everything, my bad on that too.


Yes, I purposely push because one of my goals is for high contrast and for sharpness, and I'm fine with extra grain. However, I notice that even those prints come out muddy and under an enlarger even at 30-60 seconds ill wet print and they will come out stilly all gray, with no true blacks. I'd say all my prints stay at Zone V and nothing goes any darker than that, which I cant figure out is the problem.

The developer I use is brand new and I never re-use it, I assumed all were not reusable until i researched a couple recently.

btw, I know ill lose shadow detail from pushing but I have been doing that under diffused lighting conditions so I thought it was not a big deal, I'd maybe lose highlights after a while but my main goal was to test if I could get contrast how I wanted it, but I'm not even getting any blacks so far, and it makes me sad lol


agitation is 30 seconds in the beginning, then once every 30 seconds. I dont know what to call it, but i use an agitator that i twirl the reels inside around for 5 seconds every 30 seconds. I'm doing street photography, but I did take photos of inside buildings at first.


the only thing that has changed is that im using tri-x more and that I use a different camera. These are the only changed variables because im following my class notes.

 

[lane]

sorry if these upload huge, but heres examples

 

[gsgary]

Agitate for the first minute and 7 every minute after that

 

[gsgary]

Heres some times for trix and tmax
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=Tri-X+400&Developer=TMax+Dev&mdc=Search
i use Rodinal for tri x

 

[lane]

in my second post I mention I developed for 6.5 minutes

 

[dxqcanada]

You are looking at the negative, right (not the print) ?
Over developing, plus over exposing the neg could muddy things up ?

T-MAX developer data sheet
1:4 dilution @ 68 C

Tri-X pan = 6min (same time for 800ISO)
Tri-X pan Pro = 4min
Pro Tri-X = 4.5min

 

[lane]

yes, the negative, so should I just develop for less time? I plan to use D-76 from now on. I'm kinda confused as to how overdevelopment would achieve this if developing more is suppose to bring out contrast.

 

[gsgary]

in my second post I mention I developed for 6.5 minutes

But you only agitate for first 30 seconds an 1 inversion after that you need to do it for full minute the i do 7 inversions every minute

 

[lane]

I agigate for 30 full seconds, then after that I agitate/invert for 5 seconds for every 30 seconds. I do this because im followin my class notes, but im also under the impression that I'll increase grain heavily if I agitate for too much, and I must minimize it to prevent blowing out highlights.

 

[ann]

You are looking at the negative, right (not the print) ?
Over developing, plus over exposing the neg could muddy things up ?

over developing plus over exposing will increase the contrast, if one over exposed they need to underdevelop and if you under expose you over develop. not both together.