"Everyone with a camera calls themself a photographer..."

[Stillsky]

Yeah, yeah, I know...you get the idea though...

I do, but I disagree.

Like Chris, I've been involved in music since a very young age and worked professionally in the field for a number of years. I'd have no qualms with someone calling themselves a musician or an instrumentalist if they leisurely played their axe once every couple of months just to throw down some riffs. That might be because I don't have any delusional beliefs about the label and try to talk it up as if it should only be reserved to those who actively pursue mastery over their instrument.

 

[JerryPH]

I have...and lived to tell about with out any extra orfaces...but that is off topic

As an avid martial artist of 25+ years, and having seen some of the best swordsmen in the world (Hiroshi Takanami for example, and I attended a seminar with Duk Ku Kau Pai in 1984), I would say that anyone that thinks their sword is more deadly than a firearm needs a reality check. I've not seen a Katana slice through an engine block lately from 30 paces... but a 9mm does it quite easily, and with near no kick.

I've not seen a sword be able to damage like a rifle can a 1/4 mile away... most marines start sniper training at 100 feet and can pit the center of the ace at 1000 feet moving 35 MPH.

You say you survived against one... you got lucky. Please, let's not let ego get in the way of reality.

 

[abraxas]

soccer mom is just a term. All she needs is a minivan and she's a soccer mom, even if her kid plays baseball.

Ok, so I'm thinking, by primarily the same logic all a photographer needs to be a photographer is a camera and to have taken at least one photo. It's just a term.

 

[JerryPH]

It is just a term, a word. It has no more meaning than you want to give it. Some bring that word to a new level and others bring that word to a new low.

I prefer to enjoy it for what it does for me and to heck with the labels.

 

[abraxas]

It is just a term, a word. It has no more meaning than you want to give it. Some bring that word to a new level and others bring that word to a new low.

I prefer to enjoy it for what it does for me and to heck with the labels.

Agreed, I guess. Well, on to other challenges, like MILF. Goggling it now,... Ah here it is,... ... ... :shock:

 

[JerryPH]

Cool, I heard MILK does a body good! :lmao:

 

[Overread]

As an avid martial artist of 25+ years, and having seen some of the best swordsmen in the world (Hiroshi Takanami for example, and I attended a seminar with Duk Ku Kau Pai in 1984), I would say that anyone that thinks their sword is more deadly than a firearm needs a reality check. I've not seen a Katana slice through an engine block lately from 30 paces... but a 9mm does it quite easily, and with near no kick.

I've not seen a sword be able to damage like a rifle can a 1/4 mile away... most marines start sniper training at 100 feet and can pit the center of the ace at 1000 feet moving 35 MPH.

You say you survived against one... you got lucky. Please, let's not let ego get in the way of reality.

You say guns
He says swords
Well you can keep your guns - and he can keep his swords
I will use a Gunblade - best of both worlds

 

[caspertodd]

I do, but I disagree.

Like Chris, I've been involved in music since a very young age and worked professionally in the field for a number of years. I'd have no qualms with someone calling themselves a musician or an instrumentalist if they leisurely played their axe once every couple of months just to throw down some riffs. That might be because I don't have any delusional beliefs about the label and try to talk it up as if it should only be reserved to those who actively pursue mastery over their instrument.

Yes, and I have played guitar for 28 years.

What I am saying though is a musician creates music (as in a nice sound, not necessarily writing) rather than just plucking at some strings or banging on a drum. A photographer creates a photo rather than just pressing a shutter. I think a little bit of passion for it is required too. Why would you call yourself a musician if you only played once every few months, or a photographer if you only got your camera out a few times a year.

 

[caspertodd]

You say guns
He says swords
Well you can keep your guns - and he can keep his swords
I will use a Gunblade - best of both worlds

Gotta love Final Fantasy!

 

[Stillsky]

Yes, and I have played guitar for 28 years.

What I am saying though is a musician creates music (as in a nice sound, not necessarily writing) rather than just plucking at some strings or banging on a drum. A photographer creates a photo rather than just pressing a shutter. I think a little bit of passion for it is required too. Why would you call yourself a musician if you only played once every few months, or a photographer if you only got your camera out a few times a year.

In its most basic form, a musician is someone who performs music, just as a photographer is someone performs the act of capturing light onto film or sensor. No more, no less. Why the need to make these labels out to be bigger than they are? Why does it really matter?

 

[epatsellis]

It is true to an extent. With art, there's no way to standardize the industry. To know accounting, you become a CPA (that's what they call it in the US, at least). To be a doctor, you become an MD, to become a photographer, you buy a camera and do whatever you want...<snip>

But there are qualifications, the PPA has several levels, there's a fine arts degree to show an ability to learn and express creative concepts. Most of the really creative students I've met have total crap for equipment, I mean total crap. and guess who makes some of the most stunning images? (hint, not usually the kid with >20K worth of equipment, all brand new)

I'm finding myself going back to school after a kinda long year off (started in 1981, hasn't ended yet...) soon. Not to learn much, but to quantify my knowledge and put it on paper, as apparently a 45 year old photographer with a killer portfolio and past client list can't get a f'n job without at least a BFA these days....Grrr..




erie

 

[caspertodd]

Honestly, it doesn't matter, there are more important things in life... BUT for some reason this topic keeps coming up, and it just bugs me when people are discouraging new photographers by saying "you are not truly a photographer", what is the point of that?

 

[Overread]

Honestly, it doesn't matter, there are more important things in life... BUT for some reason this topic keeps coming up, and it just bugs me when people are discouraging new photographers by saying "you are not truly a photographer", what is the point of that?

elitism
fear of competition
jealousy with richer people (those can can get the best kit first time around)
annoyance at having more "newb" posts that are repeats on site
annoyance at having to answer the same questions over and over

well those are some reasons - and its not really much to worry about

 

[ir0n_ma1den]

i haven't read through this forum... I have no idea what other people have said, so I may just e repeating others.. or not... I'm going to liken this topic to music... simply because music is something I know a lot about. I'm 23 years old... I've been studying music since i was 3.... I know almost everything there is theory wise about music... I am accomplished in 13 different instruments, and I play them all fluently. I play in bands, I've released 4 CD's, I've been on TV (because of music) I've been on radios, I've played THOUSANDS of shows, I've opened for some big names, and I've been the big name who was opened for... I am a musician. What makes me a musician? is it the fact that I have studied for 20 years? is it the fact that I have CD's... is it the fact that I am paid to play music? NO I am a musician simply because I play music... does it make me more of a musician than my friend who started playing guitar last year, NO.. it does make me a BETTER musician, but he is still a musician....

Seriously?

If so, thats awesome! I am taking AP music theory next year hoping to learn alot about music... theory to me is really interesting...

Back on topic:

Its hard to say who is a photographer and who isn't because different people have different ideas on what a photographer is. An average person may call someone a photographer if they have a DSLR, while a 'pro' (the term pro is also hard to describe) might only call Ansel Adams a photographer. Its really opinion...

 

[dpolston]

... I don't blame her at all for the response she gave you.

Rick, I love your work and I think you are a hell of a photographer. I soOOOoo absolutely see where you're coming from, but I think you were having a bad day when you wrote this (I hope).

I do agree on protecting the image and some of her style but I do think her response was uncalled for. You can politely shoot down someones interest in shadowing you but I don't think you need to berate them for asking.

As to the response I would have given: I would have asked her how she came to be in the profession. She at some point in her life had to shoot her first wedding and take her first "pro" session. I would venture to believe that she (as did most of us "pros") shadowed, paid for, stole, failed by and succeeded in practice on her own and I am sure without a doubt in my mind, that she herself asked another "pro" before her "Hey, how'd you do that?"

I think she "the photographer" is bitter person that forgot her background and probably isn't a good mentor in the first place.

One mans opinion.

David

Rick... love your work and we've followed each other around enough in these forums to know that I don't mean this to be combative. We have got to shoot with each other! =o)